PODCAST. Positive Psychology, Meditation, and Friendships with Aviva Nirenberg.
In this ADHD Wise Squirrels episode, we spoke with Ascend With Aviva Coaching’s Aviva Nirenberg, an experienced ADHD coach, who offered valuable insights into understanding, managing, and thriving with adult ADHD. This comprehensive exploration touches on various aspects, from debunking common misconceptions to embracing the superpowers that can accompany ADHD.
Beyond Stereotypes: A Holistic View of ADHD
Aviva challenges prevailing stereotypes surrounding ADHD, emphasizing the need for a holistic perspective. By viewing ADHD through a broader lens, individuals can better understand and manage the challenges associated with the condition. Aviva advocates for a nuanced understanding, acknowledging that ADHD is not a one-size-fits-all condition.
Impact on Relationships: Navigating the ADHD Dynamic
One of the key points of discussion revolves around the impact of ADHD on personal relationships. Aviva provides insights into the challenges individuals with ADHD may face in their interactions and offers practical strategies to navigate these complexities. The episode delves into the importance of open communication and mutual understanding in fostering healthy relationships.
Motivation Unveiled: The Role of Dopamine
Motivation can be a significant hurdle for individuals with ADHD. Aviva sheds light on the role of dopamine in motivation and outlines practical tips for boosting productivity. By understanding the neurobiological aspects of motivation, individuals can tailor strategies to enhance focus and achieve their goals effectively.
Holistic Approach to ADHD Management
ADHD management goes beyond addressing executive functions. Aviva advocates for a holistic approach that incorporates lifestyle factors such as nutrition, exercise, and sleep. Recognizing the interconnectedness of these elements is pivotal in creating a comprehensive strategy for managing ADHD symptoms and enhancing overall well-being.
Discovering Strengths: Turning ADHD into a Superpower
Aviva shares exercises aimed at helping individuals discover and leverage their unique strengths. By reframing ADHD as a source of superpowers, individuals can harness their innate abilities to overcome challenges and thrive. The episode underscores the transformative impact of adopting a strengths-based approach to ADHD management.
Expert Insights: Aviva Nirenberg's Perspective
Drawing from her extensive experience working with ADHD clients, Aviva emphasizes the importance of maintaining a positive mindset. Her insights underscore the significance of a personalized and holistic approach to ADHD coaching, focusing on individual strengths and unique challenges.
Listener Stories: Transformative Journeys
Interspersed throughout the episode are inspiring stories from individuals who have transformed their lives by embracing their ADHD. These real-life experiences serve as testaments to the potential for growth and success when armed with the right strategies and mindset.
Tools and Resources: Equipping Listeners for Success
The episode provides valuable tools and resources, including links to the VIA Strengths Assessment—a useful tool for identifying character strengths. Additionally, Aviva recommends ADHD-friendly apps such as Streaks, designed to assist individuals in building and maintaining positive habits.
Dave also spoke about Ikiga, which you can learn more about in our article, Finding purpose and fulfillment through Ikigai.
Inspiring Growth and Potential
This episode equips listeners with valuable insights into managing adult ADHD. Aviva's expertise, coupled with a positive perspective, leaves listeners inspired to unlock their full potential. By adopting a holistic approach and embracing individual strengths, individuals with ADHD can navigate challenges and thrive in various aspects of their lives.
Connect with Aviva:
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So I just want to make sure I don't mispronounce your name, but it's Aviva. Nurnberg. Correct. Perfect. Okay. It's this your personal logo or is this like a bit? Like, where do you use it? Oh, you're talking about the smiley face? Didi. Yeah, the smiley face. Yeah. Yeah. So I use it on my personal website, which I'm making some doing some work on right now. But, and that I use it in my presentations, I do a lot of public speaking. So I use it in my, in my presentations a lot and on social media to making me smile.
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That's what I like to hear.
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Thank you, first of all, for agreeing to join me, I've been really excited to talk to you about you know, your work as an ADHD coach. And let's, let's talk about first of all, how your past I know, I think your your husband and kids might have helped lead you to where you are today. So let's go ahead and get started talking about how you got into ADHD coaching.
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Yeah, so um, you're correct. And that it's through my husband and my kids that I embarked on this journey. I,
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I think, you know, when my kids were younger, my knowledge of ADHD was pretty limited and typical thinking that it's just boys hyperactive boys. And when my, one of my boys, I have two boys and a girl was, I don't know, I'd say like a preteen, maybe 10 or 11, one of his teachers said something they thought he had ADHD. And I thought to myself, he can't have ADHD could sit for five hours and do a puzzle. And other things, you know, the things that he enjoyed, right?
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He could sit for hours, I totally discounted that. And many more years went by before my daughter who was is my youngest child was
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diagnosed at the age of 13. And
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on that journey to be the best mom, I discovered, coaching, but I didn't really even understand what coaching was, when I started my ad cut class, I really just want it tools to help my kids and I, only through learning more about coaching and actually coaching, they really understand what coaching was, and the power of coaching in general, and specifically ADHD coaching to help people with ADHD. And my husband was like the last of the whole group to get diagnosed. And that was also like, very, like, put so many things into perspective that we had struggled with for so many years. And it was just very enlightening the whole process and learning how differently ADHD shows up in different people as well. You know, each of my kids, my husband, and clients as well. Now, everyone's ADHD is so different. There may be some commonalities, but every no one shows up exactly the same way. Yeah, that's a common thing I've heard, like, obviously, we have the handy acronym ADHD. And so that stands for stuff. But tell me a little bit about the differences. Or maybe some of the commonalities that you've you've noticed between, between different people, like different clients, for example. So I think an almost universal struggle is getting motivated on the stuff that's not fun. That's not your area of interest. I think that is one thing that links, I would say pretty much everyone that has that has ADHD. And as far as the other challenges, you know, like the organization or time management, I, I've had clients that had this one girl who was very good at time management, very good at managing her time, very good at judging time how long things were taken. It's very interesting. And you talked about like that nature versus nurture, she was from a military family. And she grew up in a very structured environment where that was just like her bread and water. And
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on the other hand, you know, you have people that time management is their, the bane of their existence. And organization to like, I found people that know kind of intuitively, that they think better feel better or less stress, when their environment is organized. So they kind of like it totally knew that about themselves. And even though it didn't come easy for them, they, you know, learned to whether it's like through being minimalists with their stuff, but having systems to keep themselves organized. And, you know, we know other people organization of their stuff, there's their spaces, you know, torture.
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So I think that's, those are a couple examples. You know, that um,
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What can we do for one client, our real struggle for another is, you know, comes naturally, or they've learned those systems, you know, from their environment, from family, whatever it is, at some point to keep themselves going.
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What are some ways that you've seen or maybe not ways, but systems that people have used to improve, you know, improve outcomes for, you know, whether it's their career or family life? Hmm. I mean, that's a really broad, broad question, Dave. So,
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well, let's, let's make perhaps let's start with, like, technology, like, Is there are there? Are there apps that you find or software that you find that that that people use to help? You know, stay organized, ultimately, yeah, so I think that's also very individual, you know, what one, some people, you know, with all the technology still like the paper and pen planner, and the whiteboard, and like the paper calendar on their wall. And I think there is an for sure, there are also people that love the technology. But I think there is like a power to, I know, like we know a lot about the brain and actually writing and how actually writing something has much more of a sort of imprint on our brain, especially with working memory deficits. Also, we know people with ADHD are very visual. And as cool as certain technology could be, you still have to pick remember to pick up your phone, open the app, whether it's a To Do app, like the to do list app, or whether it's productivity app, or whether it's a habit app, there are a lot of cool apps out there, there really are. And for people that technology is their thing, there's there's a lot to explore, and a lot of great things for ADHD. But I think we can't forget that like paper pencil, you know, whiteboards, because we know that we see what we do, you know, that's, that's the, that's the like, the, for better, for worse, right? You know, like, whatever is in front of you. And if you see that whiteboard right in front of you, whereas with your top priorities for the day, whereas in your on your phone, you have to remember to open up your phone, look into the app, or look on your calendar, or what your your meetings, your your
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your priorities are for that day, it takes a few more steps. So not to say that people aren't successful with the apps and technology, but you have to be you know, it requires an extra level of engagement, you know, to think to use it to open it and to be use it regularly. Yeah, not just making lists, like by pen, but also scratching items off the list. When you accomplish them. There's something that tactile interaction, I find his is extremely satisfying. It's a more show than clicking a box and watching it like, you know, get a strikethrough on online instead, like Yeah, yeah, scratching it when
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I did it. Yeah, it's funny because you're saying that Dave, because for years, I would have my to do list. And sometimes I would end up doing something an errand I forgot, or whatever it was, and then I would put it on my list and cross it off. And I thought I was like crazy. Like, why am I doing this and I only later learned in one of my courses or trainings that actually gives you that dopamine hit, you know, having writing it on writing it and you know whether you cross it off or check it off however you do it gives you that dopamine so yeah, and ADHD brains are starved for dopamine so you can get that dopamine you know, and that gives you more motivation to that next priority item. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. For me personally, like as as it applies to time management. That's my my number one I did a
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an executive functions kind of survey to see sort of where my strengths and weaknesses are. And, and my three strengths. The strongest skills are in time management, flexibility and, and then goal directed persistence, slash stress tolerance was a tie for the third place. Yeah. But time management is a big one. Yeah, I'm super anal with my time. And so like, for example, I mean, we're talking today because this meeting was on my calendar. If it wasn't on my calendar, I wouldn't I wouldn't be here I'd like to like everything is on my calendar. And it took a while. And this is something I obsessed about way before being diagnosed, you know, at 50 with ADHD, so I didn't know I had ADHD but I needed I knew that I needed everything on a calendar and so my wife is amazing. And she she writes it all down and has a calendar on the fridge to keep us you know, in check and the kids aware, but for me personally, I needed like a digital calendar that in
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integrated into my calendar. So I created like a separate Google Calendar, in addition to my business, one for family stuff, and that and now God bless her, she adds things there. So that it appears on mine. So I can actually like overlay those two calendars digitally and look and see and say, okay, yeah, we can't talk today cuz we have a doctor's appointment or whatever. Yeah, yeah, he was just set a lot, I was just I don't know what points even bring up first. But I want to see that, you know, one of the
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where technology can really help us where you, it's much harder John papers, that idea of sharing, you know, sharing account or sharing grocery lists, or whatever it is that it's much harder to, you know, someone else to copy your list or to share, you know, tasks that way. The other thing you were saying a little bit earlier was, you made a really good point to tell you about your strengths and executive function, because no one would have an ADHD showing up differently for each person, is it no one is weak, and all the executive functions, even someone you know, with,
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if there were a scale of ADHD, how strongly it impacts you, on a really strong case of ADHD is not going to be weak on all the executive functions and to know what your strengths are not just an executive function, but know what your strengths are in general, and really lean into your strengths. Because we know we that creating a life or even just coaching on your weaknesses is not very empowering. You know, we when we feel our best, and we are best, we're living a life of our strengths. We need to deal with our weaknesses. I'm not, you know, pushing them to the background or avoiding them. But leaning into those strengths. Yep, yeah. What am I my weakest? my weakest?
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Skill is planning and prioritize. So it's, it's and that often, yeah, then often kind of, I'll focus on, you know, yourself, right with ADHD folks, when when we embark in something creative, something we enjoy doing, like a podcast, let's say that we end up spending so much time doing that fun stuff. But not like the stuff not prioritizing the things that need to be prioritized like financial, you know, stuff.
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Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the cool things I learned. Is that on one hand, yeah, you're right. Like you can forget the important stuff that's not so interesting.
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When you're doing that, that fun stuff. But on the other hand, you know, I think we're like the, in the, in the neurotypical world, people want to get done the hard stuff first. But for ADHD, it's you can use those, those fun things that create that dopamine for you, strategically, they can give you the dopamine to also tackle the harder things, the less, you know, exciting things, the monotonous things. Do you mean, like by doing those monotonous things as like rewards after that dopamine hit like? Yeah, I mean, you could use it as? Yeah, I mean, yeah. So you could say it, that you're doing that, that
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you get your reward first, instead of afterwards. But the challenge is, you know, because it's the idea of fun first, instead of like, the fun as the treat afterwards, but the challenge is, you know, being able to that that time management piece, being able to have that boundary, like having an activity that has a set ending, or, you know, having some other way to draw that boundary that you don't get lost in that fun activity. And, you know, then forget about the same thing you need to do as well. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's an interesting thing. Like it's a good it's a great idea to maybe, yeah, to start with reward, you know, that that dopamine, that thing that triggers the dopamine, assuming it's a healthy thing to do. But yeah, like, I like that a lot. Actually. I think that's, that's a great idea.
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I know you lived overseas for 12 years, where did you live? Tell me a little bit about your your background. So I'm, I'm American, we did I did grow up in America, and I lived here for the first 30 years of my life. And we My husband was working for an international company that gave him a few choices of where he could be transferred. And a few of them we kind of discounted right away because it involves our kids learning a lot of new languages and some of the European choices and we ended up getting a transfer to Tel Aviv and was I was a little bit nervous about it, to be perfectly honest. Although I do have some family living in Israel distant cousins.
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It was one of those things honestly, I know as a neurotypical that if I have thought about it for a long time, it would have taken me 10 years to make that move. But we had an opportunity
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It means that we had about two weeks miles and about two weeks to make the decision. And
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so I had to make like,
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I wouldn't say totally impulsive because I was it was thought out, but short term thought out.
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And
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two weeks later, he was on a plane, I had a little bit more time to pack up and get the kids together and kind of close things off here. But we ended up it was a two year commitment that ended up being 12 and a half years. So yeah. And then things kind of brought us back Pierce some family needs. And we were back in Denver an hour in New York, where we both started out originally.
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That's wild. That's wild. So but yeah, and you mentioned, you know, the learning languages are the kids at least proficient in Hebrew now at least they are. My kids are my kids are definitely bilingual. In fact, my youngest daughter is living there. She went back after high school and she's in nursing school there. And yeah, this she, she said, like all that moving around is worth it because she was very funny. So in her program, the program itself was in Hebrew. But as I don't know if you know this, but all medical textbooks are pretty much in English, most researches in English. So the Israeli students have to take very high level English classes and the program she placed out of that, from her like English essays, you know, her verbal LSAT, and the fact that she graduated from high school in America, but they looked at her SATs score, but also as a foreign student, she would have had Hebrew requirements, but because her Hebrew was good enough that she placed that out. So she basically had one day, she didn't have classes when everyone else did.
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All that all that hard work was worth it. Because it's not easy moving. It's not easy coming, I came back to America, when my kids were teenagers, even though they, you know, the roots were here, they'd spent a majority of their childhood there. So that was also hard. But now they, I think are grateful for that opportunity. And knowing so many people in so many different places is also, you know, one of those benefits of moving Yeah, I think you learn to adjust and adapt to different environments more easily when you've been tested that way. Yeah, absolutely. I worked. I worked for a restaurant slash bar slash folk club in Toronto a million years ago. And my boss every Sunday would have a she called the Bella Did you eat? And it was a Jewish brunch. With like, non kosher, but it was still like all the all the fixing. So you know, lock this and blintzes and all the things that are just making me hungry thinking about.
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But she also had live bands play too. So they were always like, you know, Hebrew singing in Hebrew or Yiddish performers and all that stuff. So yeah, and and she taught me like all the different versions of,
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of lay like on eBay, or you could like,
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yeah, I in fact, I just posted something about this, I think on Facebook a while not that long ago, saying like, you know, I hope it's, I hope it's okay with all my Jewish friends that I totally use oil and oil, you can vaulted all the other ones. Because it's like the best saying ever summarizes everything. It's really cool. It's making me think about you know, they say like, the the Alaskan native language has however, many words for snow, you know, different types of No. So I think that Yiddish as a language has a lot of like, negative words, you know, with all the words for boy, you know, and I think because Yiddish culture develops, I guess, in Eastern Europe, when there was a lot of persecution, I'm just guessing when there's a lot of persecutions there was a lot of life was hard. But the interesting thing about Hebrew, Hebrew has like seven or eight words for happiness, like different types of joy and happiness. And I think it's a much more
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positive language, if that makes sense. Yeah, sure. That makes sense. I thought that was I thought that was very, very cool. And positivity is something that you know, is near and dear to your heart. How do you work with your clients to you know, especially on down days, perhaps, you know, work on their positivity on their their spirit and their mood? But that's a good question. I, you know, I think when someone's feeling really down, you do have to have that empathy and tune in to where they are and meet them where they're at. At the same time, you know, I do feel and I know from my own life that even in the most difficult situations or the most difficult days there's there's always something to be grateful for and you can always find that like, Colonel you know, of positivity or blessing in you know, whether it's just a rough day or you know, something more monumental like a difficult
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is a really difficult challenge that people are going through. So I think it's a combination, you know, of of that really, you know, feeling for them, you know, where they're at, and validating their, whether it's fear or pain or whatever, you know, emotion they're feeling, but, but helping them to tune in to
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what's good, you know, or what's potential there is for growth in a situation. I mean, it really depends on the situation, you know, if someone's dealing with a major loss, you can't talk to them about growth, you know, if after the fact, you know, they talk about post traumatic growth, you know, you I think you have more perspective, to see how you have grown or how you could have grown, you know, from a situation but it really, it's, you know, I guess it's relative to how large the situation is, when you can tune into that growth piece. So I like the idea of, you know, getting back to the or not getting back, but, but what's the saying lemon lemons into lemonade, right, like, changing 100% Changing your perspective and 2020.
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You know, the, the world seemed to be imploding. And in addition to the stresses that we are all experiencing, you know, our tornado came through Nashville where I live and destroyed my kids school. And then three months later, another storm came and left us with 10 holes in our roof and seven trees down, and we basically had to leave our house for three months well, and then in addition to all of my business, all the work, I had to also, you know, dealing with shoddy contractors and insurance claims, virtually because of COVID. Everything was it was just incredibly stressful. And at that time, I dabbled with meditation over the years. But it was at that time that I actually took it much more seriously and started a daily practice, and have found,
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you know, mindfulness as a result of meditation has really helped me to sort of pause and slow down, and, and change my perspective. And yeah, I still get down and stressed and annoyed with whatever, but it helps me. It helps me kind of shift my attention and change my perspective on whatever I'm going through and try to think about a positive approach to to that, do you? Do you teach or practice meditation, mindfulness, have you? Do you have any experience? Yeah, and I do shy away from the word meditation for people with ADHD, because I think that has that that connotation of, you know, sitting still, and just breathing. And I think for most people that haven't had exposure to it, with ADHD, especially if you're hyperactive, that's like anathema to them. You know, it's just hard to even conceive. But I like better the mind the word mindfulness because I what I do stress for people is that mindfulness can be done while you're active, could be going or taking a walk could be done when you're in the shower, washing the dishes, just tuning in, at the moment to what you're feeling and your senses what's going through your head and just being present that pause that you know, that pause. It's similar to the meditation and you can be tuned into your breath. But I think that it works better for at least to get started. You know, to start, even if it's a minute, I, I've heard the word before. And I think it's, it's an easier way to get people started that mini mindfulness or micro mindfulness for you just take 30 seconds or a minute. And just, you know, be in the moment, like, how you feel whether you're sitting, I'm actually sitting right now. So you know how I'm feeling sitting in this seat, what background noise I might be hearing, you know, what I'm seeing in my environment is tuning into your senses, and any thoughts that go through your head, which probably many go through your head when you have ADHD, but just letting them be you not not holding on to them, just letting them you know, float. And I think that works, at least as an introduction, better for most people with ADHD than the idea of meditation. I know, I know, some people add to the hat, that are serious meditators, but I don't think they started right away, you know, with the 20 minutes half hour or longer, you know, serious meditations. And then it's transformative for the people that are serious about and make it a regular practice. And one thing I think is really cool. And you probably heard this research, that meditation people that are long term meditators that meditate regularly that actually makes changes in the prefrontal cortex, you know, so whether people decide to take meditate medication, medication, not meditation, or not, you know, that's short acting, you know, your take your middle and your Adderall, your Vyvanse it might make a big difference for your short term, but it's not as far as we know anyway, you're making any changes in your brain whereas meditation and also exercise but that's an that's another topic are making changes in your brain, you know, for the good and helping you helping those executive functions. You know, they're really developing that that prefrontal cortex
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Because such as, which is an amazing benefit. Yeah, and I can, I can completely understand and see where the word meditation might scare people off. Especially Yeah, with with ADHD because of that, that that that need for for focus. The one, the app that I use actually has, it's pretty interesting. They have walking, some walking meditations, as well. So obviously, there's meditations that you can do with your eyes open as well. And obviously, you're not walking with your eyes closed. But it's, it's interesting, one of the biggest revelations I've had in my own meditation practice. And something I talked to friends about when I don't like I'm not preaching, everybody should meditate. But I'll talk to friends about it. When they asked me and I have friends who say, you know, I can't do it, because I can't, like, just focus on my breath. And I think his stuff. And the idea of what I've learned in this is that, yes, that's 100% accurate, everybody does. The thing is like you, the PERT, the point here is you, you let that thought play out in your head, like a short film. And what happens when you start doing this is you realize, like, like, let's say, let's say, I think, I've got to, I've got to walk my dog tomorrow. And I start thinking about kind of walk the dog. But then I then I envision myself walking the dog tomorrow. And so there's me going outside, not every step, but like me going outside walking, Peggy. And then we come, and then we come home, and then I let her off her leash. And then I get back to work. And the thought that I'm explaining is like, seconds long, it plays out, I can get right back to the breath. So it's like, just focus on these thoughts as like little movies in a way and let them just play out. And I that was a big revelation for me. I was like, oh, oh, instead of getting frustrated every time I think of like, Oh, I gotta walk panky or something. Yeah, yeah. And it's okay. And it's normal. And the more you do that, the more you know, you're doing work. And you think about walking your dog, and you can get back to your work, you're just play out that thought, but you can use that same tool, because your brain is getting used to pausing and coming back, it's okay to get off track, and everyone does. But you know, using that, to come back to whatever it was You're originally doing. Yeah. 100% I remember I saw an interview with Dr. Gupta, who you know, read a great book about brain health and, and I believe he's like the CNN, like CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT or something like that. But most people would know him. And he shared a story. And I can't remember the full specifics of it. But the short version was that he got to meet the Dalai Lama. And they sat in a meditation session together. And
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Gupta had his eyes closed. And when he suddenly opened them, kind of midway through, because he heard the Dalai Lama chuckling, like kind of laughing to himself. And he's like, What the heck? So he opened his eyes. He's like, what's, what's up? And the Dalai Lama said something to the effect. I'm totally paraphrasing here. But yeah, the Dalai Lama said, Sorry, I'm just having trouble focusing.
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Even the Dalai Lama can't always do it. So I think that's a good point. That's a really good point, even for these seasons, you know, expert, if we'll call the if he could call him an expert meditator. And who else we could call that? Yeah, they they have thoughts that get them off track. All the more so if you have an ADHD nervous system, you know, just to have that self compassion, realize it's totally normal. Just get back to that breath. Or, you know, what that that studying or whatever it is you were planning to do?
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One of the things that I've been finding interesting in my diagnosis here with with ADHD and realizing oh, yeah, okay. Because I'm still like months and not even years yet of realizing this is I know, it's common to feel as far as like relationships go, you can feel a sense of rejection rejection, and that seems to be kind of somewhat common and are partly common and ADHD folks.
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But what if so, for example, like if I try to, you know, be friends, somebody I like, and for whatever reason, they're not calling me back or we get together, we always have a good time, but they don't call me back. So I eventually just give up I'm like, okay, just forget them. I've tried enough. They're not willing to give back into the relationship, so you know, whatever.
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But I bring that up, because now I'm approaching things more empathetically.
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And the truth is like myself, I'm starting to detect
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ADHD and a lot of people that I know
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probably are undiagnosed who probably don't even know. And so now I'm thinking, but but then
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this is the way my brain works now. So let's say I want to meet some, somebody, I like them, I want to become friends. But they're not calling me back. And now with empathy, I'm thinking, okay, maybe they have ADHD, or they've got things going on. And they haven't called me back. Or maybe they're, if they have ADHD, maybe they're, they're fearing rejection, and they're not calling me back because they fear being rejected from me. So what? This sounds crazy, right, but at which point do I give up?
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And not reach back out? Any, any thoughts in that complicated scenario that I just explained terribly? No, I get what you're saying. And I totally get what you're saying about once you understand ADHD better, you can not really diagnose but you can detect, you know, ADHD traits in in, in a lot of people. Yes. And having that that empathy, even people in you know, even though I don't have ADHD, I've detected also on my side of the family, you know, people have ADHD, so it's kind of funny. But looking at them through that ADHD lens is what you're saying is that maybe it's not just, they're not interested in you, maybe they really are afraid, you know, because they've had relationships that haven't worked out. And if that rejection sensitivity, I don't know. I mean, there's an easy answer to know what point you give up, I'm not sure. But I think, you know, if you think that that's your gut is telling you, this person also has ADHD, there may be also this fear of, you know, new relationships and rejection, you know, reach out a couple of times, about if you feel like, you really do have to trust your guy, like, when you've overdone it, and it's really just that, maybe they're, you know, maybe it's not just the, that they're not interested in you, maybe they're just at a busy point in their life, and they can't,
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they can't start a new relationship right now, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be they're overwhelmed, but it doesn't have to be that they're rejecting you, or that they have ADHD or fearing rejection, it could be something else entirely, you know, they're overwhelmed with something else in their life. So it doesn't have to be that you take it back, and are also, you know, experienced that rejection, because they're, you know, they're not responding to your,
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your overtures of, you know, let's go out again,
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I think there's still a place to judge them, not just judge them favorably, not just through that AD D lens. And maybe they're also fearing the rejection, that there could be other things going on for them. Because if you go out and you have a good time, I think you really like you know, well enough. When it's mutual. You know, if you feel like it's genuinely,
32:54
we had a nice time together, you know, and you felt like you were like connected, but for whatever reason, they're not interested after that, or you try a couple times and nothing happens. It could be there's other stuff.
33:05
Yeah, I can see ADHD being especially challenging for a single adult, you know, trying to meet people meet people like dating and things. I imagine that that because I'm just talking about friends. You know, I'm thankfully happy, happily married. And God bless my, my wife for putting up with me half the time.
33:28
This is yeah, this is really, this is really interesting. So we, we talked, you know, you mentioned at the beginning, we were talking a little bit about motivation.
33:39
Are there ways that you've seen that help,
33:44
help to motivate someone to do something, you know, help to increase the motivation.
33:52
So, you know, we talked a little before about tapping into that dopamine, you know, so with the task itself, you know, maybe there's some kind of angle to create interest for you to to ignite the dopamine, you know, maybe on in a simple way, you know, people that will watch their favorite show while they're on a treadmill, you know, or,
34:14
you know,
34:16
someone that
34:19
will, I don't know, listen to favorite podcasts where they're doing something boring, like doing the dishes,
34:26
or, you know, we know, we know, motivation, you know, for a neurotypical, we can do things. I'm saying we, as a neurotypical can do things that are important, even if they're not so interesting, right. And something that's important for for you, but not interesting, like maybe your taxes could be hard to get started. But how can you, you know,
34:48
make that thing. So what, let me backtrack. What motivates the ADHD brain is not important, right? We know it's interests passion, that's the easy one. That's the one that you know most people agency know about. That's how about
35:00
get into the flow with things that they love. But there's also competition. So that's like the the beauty of though that you know, those 30 day challenges, you know, there's something that you're not so interested in, but there's like a challenge element, whether it's a challenge to yourself, you know, and being your best in a certain area or a challenge with other people, when you're competing, that can create that dopamine to get you motivated.
35:22
There's also novelty, you know, you can take something old, and I like this. It's kind of a doctor Seussian term, one of my ADHD instructors call it response analyzing. It's, you know, exactly what it sounds like something that's lost, its sparkle, how can you make that thing sparkly, again, to create that motivation again, and fire that's open, it's all about dopamine. So you know, figuring out how you can get that dopamine is the key, it takes, you know, with a lot of people that aren't with ADHD are not in short supply of creativity seems it takes creativity to figure out how you can take this thing that is
36:02
either overwhelming or not interesting, or, you know, whatever it is that's keeping you away from it, and figure out how to make it interesting, you know, make it more interesting. There's the whole idea of gamifying I'm sure you've heard that term, you know, how can you make this thing into a game? How can you make it fun?
36:21
Yeah, and I like, you know, getting back to what we were talking about before, whether it's through technology or or analog on on pen and paper, you know, you can, you can make things fun by, you know, writing down the goals and scratching them out, as we said, but then there's a lot of productivity apps and things like that, that will give you
36:43
there's an app I use called streaks, which is great, which you can add different streaks, like walk the dog, and then you set it to say, I'm gonna walk the dog every day. But when you do it, you can click it, and then it, it shows you how many days you were successful, and have a you know, in getting a streak. And then ultimately, what you're trying to do in that case is, is form habits and healthy, healthy, good habits.
37:10
Yeah, we're talking about before, also, that the visual how important that visual piece is for ADHD. And with something, you know, like, like walking the dog or exercise or eating healthy, if you see that streak, like you're talking about, you can see it in your app, or you see it on a calendar checked off all the days you did that thing that also is motivating, you know, like, even if you're off for one day, getting back on because you see that streak that that creates dopamine. And another thing is, you know, tapping into how is this thing meaningful for you, or what's the value in it for you, and, you know, knowing, even if someone doesn't like doing taxes, and it's most boring thing, maybe they have a value of, of being fiscally responsible, you know, or someone that hates doing laundry, but they, they, they, it's important to them to provide for their family, like a mom or even a dad or whoever, you know, to, to feel like they're doing their you know, they're, they're taking care of their household, you know, so tapping into whatever it is. And for bigger things even more important, you know, someone that's excuse me
38:23
at work, and is not everything they do at work is something that they're going to love. But But what's the value there, you know, what's the meaning behind a particular project, you know, in the bigger scheme of things in there, maybe they want to be an expert in their field or, you know, whatever, whatever it is to kind of figure out yourself, What's your why. And that also can be a motivating factor, especially for like longer term things. You know, you might have that motivation most of the time, but when, like I have a student I'm working with now is doing his dissertation. So it's been like a very long haul, like, it's been seven years that he did research. And now he actually has to put it all together. And a dissertation is not something to do the night before. You know, it's not like even if you got by with doing your papers the night before for the rest of your academic life, it's not going to work at that point. So really tapping into what's where's the meaning for him? Like where it how does this fit into his goals? It's bigger, long term goals. And that's kind of really important to just keep that bigger. Why in mind, do you have tips around?
39:27
You know, I was sort of I think of like Simon Sinek and people like that who who talk a lot about finding your why do you have exercises or techniques to help your clients find their why. So yeah, there are different
39:43
tools and exercises.
39:47
You know, tapping into what people's strengths are, what experiences
39:53
in their lives have given them like sense of satisfaction, fulfillment
39:59
people, everyone
40:00
When you have ADHD, you can kind of forget these your positive experiences and focus on the negative, you can remember your failures, but you forget your success, it doesn't have to be even successes, anything you found fulfilling, meaningful, satisfying, and it can go back to even kids, you know, when they were in school, like experiences they had, that they totally forgot about, you know. So, talking about experiences, you know, going back into different points in life. And
40:33
it's not like a quick exercise. But you know, first is what they come up with off the top of their head, you know, those are kind of magical moments that they remember, those are the first ones, but when you spend a little bit more time on it, not necessarily in the session, but they think about different times in their life, look back at old pictures, you know, think about different areas that are life, personal, academic, you know, work, then people are able to come up with a kind of a list of those experiences that they've found most rewarding, and you can kind of start to see patterns. And you kind of dive into that. And you eventually people are able to figure out like what things in life, it's usually not one definite thing, but what areas what, what topics, what causes for them are most meaningful.
41:22
Yeah, it's a great, great point all around. And I do personally, something I've, I've posted about online before about
41:32
that anytime I'm in a bad mood, I scroll through my Instagram feed, because it's all my personal Instagram is all just, that's not all, but a lot of it is successes, I've had, certainly speaking engagements and helping my clients, but also, you know, family stuff, like, you know, travels that we've had, and, and lots of great memories there. You know, I, because I'm an early adopter, and a lot of social media stuff. I you know, I started Instagram in 2010. So when it launched, so I have like, a pretty long history 1000s of photos on Instagram, so I could just scroll through it. You know, a lot of people use Instagram just for,
42:16
you know, just kind of marketing materials really like quotables and things like that. But for me personally, just going back and looking through some of the photos, you know, and Facebook, you know, have the memories feature that, you know, it creates, as well. So I find, I find those helpful. Are you familiar with, there's a Japanese word iki guy I'm familiar with, I don't know how to say it. I'm familiar with it. It's really neat. I mean, it's, it's a cool kind of model. Where if you if you imagine like four circles, it's hard to describe, I'll include a link to it here. So people can see it. Right in the in the podcast player, I'll include a link below. But you can see like, your ikigai is basically like, what you're, what you're aiming for. And it mixes like what you love your passions, your mission, but then also incorporates your profession and vocation and what you do and what people pay you for, and what you're good at, but also what the world needs. And so it taps into, like your mission as well. And it kind of by by going through the exercise around iki guy, it helps you kind of
43:31
narrow down your own passions and helps you kind of focus on in on stuff. So I find I found that, that exercise to be pretty rewarding. Yeah, I think for you know, most people, when they first come to coaching, they're coming in crisis, they're coming because they're on probation at work, or they're, you know, it's the end of the semester, and they haven't done the work and exams and all those projects are doing two weeks and they don't know how they're gonna get it done. They're in some kind of crisis. So that was like 90% of people that come to ADHD coaching, but it's when you can after you do that crisis management and you know, they are able to really do this kind of work that's when the real you know, the real empowerment the real you know, joy you know, comments because there people are used to working with that deficit mentality I just need to fix you know, my weaknesses are not used to like that learn leaning into their strengths, their purpose, their passion and creating a life around that and that's where the best life comes.
44:29
That's really interesting. So
44:31
almost you're almost like a firefighter in a way I guess.
44:35
You know that your your people are coming to you for rescue initially.
44:41
Yeah, I think that's most really is the majority people and that's kind of the way most people live life you know, just trying to put out fires whether it's their their health or their their job, but, but really like what are we here for? We don't just want to put out fires we want to live a happy life. We want to have a fulfilling life. You know, someone
45:00
You can get past not just the fires, but having the tools to prevent the fires in the future. And then, you know, have that you have to send them you have to start if you're a minus, I don't mean a minus as a person, like you're below ground zero, you have to hit Ground Zero first, you know, to put out that fire. And I think that's where positive psychology in general came in. I don't know how much you're familiar with positive psychology, but the founder of positive psychology, Martin Seligman, he was dissatisfied with like, psychology is focused on just pathology and mental health. He said, why can psychology be once people are healthy, emotionally, creating a great life creating a flourishing life creating a life, that people thrive and are happy using the best that they have in them to create, you know, their best version of themselves. And I think that's, similarly with ADHD coaching for the most part, people come in, you know, they're struggling with all these ADHD traits, and they and they want, they want to learn executive function skills, but that's just such a small part of it, you know, in the best coaching, that's just a small part of it is, you know, once you get past that don't even pass that along the way is creating a good life creating a life you're happy and joyful, and your best self.
46:18
I almost picture. Yeah, as we're talking about that, and using that fire analogy, I'm almost picturing like Smokey the Bear an American icon, you know, that they're pointing at you that only you can prevent, you know, mental health fires, or, or, or life fires, you know, only you can prevent fires. But I also think about it. Now, I'm born and raised Canadian and live in the US. But I've been here long enough to notice how
46:49
it's almost it seems an American way of, especially as it pertains to health
46:57
to only treat your treat your health, seriously, when when there is a fire to put out rather than being preventative? Have you found that to and your own sort of international travels? And yeah, I think unfortunately,
47:14
that's the way most practitioners are in Israel as well. And I think maybe because it's socialized medicine, there's very little of that holistic view. I mean, I'm sure you can find individuals, individual practitioners that take a more holistic approach, but I was thinking also, you know, going back to ADHD, and the holistic approaches, you know, not just learning that to improve your executive function, it helps, that helps, it's the foundation of good ADHD management, to eat well, to exercise to sleep well, to do those things you enjoy, you know, that's like that really critical piece that is so often lacking, it's hard, it's hard for a lot of people they ADHD, but when you understand how
48:03
all of those, like lifestyle pieces really impact how your ADHD shows up. It's a game changer. You know, if you're willing to work on those things, if they're, you know, I'm sure you know, in your own life, when you're, when you're sleeping well, eating well, and doing some kind of exercise or ad to show up a certain way. And if you're sleep deprived, haven't exercised and are eating garbage or ad, it will show up very differently. So
48:28
that said, a holistic approach is I think, so critical in general. And it's good advice for anyone listening, neurotypical neurodiverse, it really doesn't matter, like Focus, focus on your health. When I moved to the US. 16 years ago, I was talking to one of my best friends here. And I was looking for a doctor, you know, like a general practitioner. And I asked him, you know, who's your GP? And he said, What do you mean? And I said, like, you're your doctor, like, who's your doctor? And he's like, Oh, the kids pediatrician is, and I'm like, no, no, no. Yours, like, Who do you go see every year for your annual? And he's like, Oh, I just I don't have I just go to the doctor when I'm sick.
49:15
And I'm like, but you take your car in to get tuned up and oil changes.
49:22
And he's like, Well, yeah, I'm like, Well, you need to nups in oil changes. So yeah, it's Yeah, I love that analogy. Yeah. So but this, this is this has been such a great conversation. And I really appreciate all of your insights here. Is there something anything that I didn't bring up or a topic we didn't talk about that that you thought you think we should include? Hmm, good question. So what's coming up in my head is is you know, the idea of ADHD superpowers and you've probably spoken about that with other people. You
50:00
have interviewed, but I just want to say, you know, just to keep it short, when I first heard that term, I thought it was a joke to be perfectly honest. Like, okay, you know, like, I just, I didn't really like get it, like I understand, and I'm a very positive person. But I would say now, you know, really understanding ADHD much better and having a family filled with people that you need to see and working with many, many clients with ADHD that I really do think that when ADHD is treated well, meaning you understand how your brain works, and you understand holistically getting back to that term, you know, those lifestyle pieces that are important to be your best. And you've learned some strategies, you know, to be to manage your time to be productive, and all those things that can be challenging. Really, it is a superpower. And I'm saying this as someone that, you know, doesn't have ADHD, and honestly, like, there's so many times today that I honestly feel like I'm like, I want to be part of the club, you know, like, not that we can do a do over here. But I feel like I'm missing out, you know, for the people that really have figured out their ADHD and really worked on it, and worked on themselves honestly, not just their ADHD, it really is a superpower. And I you know, tight on people that come in crisis, people come not just in crisis, they come they're there feel mentally emotionally beaten, you know, because they've had so many failures, and are perceived failures. And I think as a coach, my messages, there's so much hope there's so much good and there's so much, you know, that people with ADHD, the neuro division have to offer, you know, have to offer the world have to offer themselves if they you know, just
51:46
really tune in, and leaning into those strengths, and
51:52
figuring out how to manage those challenges. But But leaning into those strengths. And when those when those challenges are managed, those superpowers really shine.
52:02
I developed, I do a lot of presentations and public speaking from from my business my day job. And I developed a brand new keynote presentation called more than a tree. And it's reaching your roots standing tall, and branching out. And it really has three sections of it of knowing yourself, respecting yourself and then finding the others finding your community. But the Know Yourself part, I actually do focus on your superpowers. And I have some strategies that I include in that in that presentation about, you know how you can find and discover your superpowers. Before we wrap up very quickly. I'm curious, you know, what's an exercise or something you do with your clients to help them discover theirs?
52:56
So
52:58
I think that
53:01
there are there are those tools like I love the Vyas strengths. And if you're familiar with the Values in Action, I love that as a tool. Because I think, you know, there's there's two kinds of strengths, like there's the character strengths, you know, things like honesty, or zest or creativity or fairness. And there's also those performance strengths like things you do well.
53:24
So that I think I haven't I don't use those,
53:29
those strength finder exercises, those kinds of assessments, but it goes back to you know, what, what have you been?
53:37
It's a hard question, because a lot of people idiots you ask them, what are their strengths? The there, they just are silent? You know, unfortunately. So you have to say, well, what would your boss say you do? Oh, would your mother say you do well, what would your friends say you're good at.
53:54
And getting back to those experiences that we talked about earlier that that list of those experiences that were satisfying, enjoyable, empowering, fulfilling those experiences trying to see patterns in where they felt like they were in the flow where they felt most engaged and most real life things that come naturally for them. Because sometimes it's it's not so easy.
54:17
With people with ADHD, for them to they can't come out and say what their child is let people know themselves better. And I've been more on a journey of self growth before they come to coaching, but many haven't. So it's kind of like going back into those experiences and figuring out from from then from from those, you know, where
54:39
where they've really, you know,
54:42
shined shone is what's the word shine, Shawn, I struggle with that one.
54:48
Anyway, yeah. So seeing it from another person standpoint, if they can say it themselves, that's one way and
54:57
even those experiences they had that other people consider a con
55:00
I'm Bushmans, I've also find that they won't even consider an accomplishment. Because it because if it comes naturally, then they won't even acknowledge it as as a strength. Oh, it doesn't everyone, can everyone just paint like that, or, you know, play music like that, or whatever it is right like that. So it's sometimes it's like taking that third person perspective. Yeah, yeah, that bit bird's eye view helps. But I'd be curious what the exercise you use, as I'm always looking for new tools that can be helpful for clients. Yeah, I'll share that with you. And I was also going to mention, one thing I do is, when I, when I meet, when I get hired to deliver a presentation or workshop for a company, let's say, or a conference, I always connect with the client ahead of time on Twitter, on LinkedIn. And then, after the engagement, you know that they've they've received survey results from their audience or their team members, and so on. After I've done the engagement, they I asked them based on the feedback they received, would they mind leaving me a recommendation on my LinkedIn profile? And because I do this, in part, because it provides social proof. It's not just like, you know, Jim s says, Dave Delaney is lovely, you know, but it's actually like a real person. And in doing this, I've I've accrued 130, plus, now, LinkedIn recommendations, and I find that as an exercise,
56:33
that, obviously I can, it can I can use it and marketing material to help grow my business, and help, you know, find future engagements. But at the same time, when I go through those and review those that really does help me realize like, No, I am great at what I do. People love it. And I get wonderful feedback from my clients. So.
56:56
So doing something like that, where you're, you're connecting with your clients ahead of time, and then asking them for a recommendation after the engagement, I find has been really helpful. Yeah, yeah, it reminds me of that exercise that a brilliant teacher did and you probably heard about this, and then a lot of others used to duplicate it since then, where they gave all the CEO familiar this, all the students in the class had to write something positive about everyone else in the class. So So then at the end, each person gets, each student gets a list of what everyone else has said about them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, and I've heard people that have kept that their entire lives, because sometimes even for people that know their strengths, hearing from other people, one is very validating, but also, sometimes they're things you're not even aware of, that if someone notices in you, and then you're like, oh, wow, you know, and it makes you smile, and it makes you more self calm. And once we know our strengths, you know, because we don't know them. It's hard to be consciously using them. But we are aware of our strengths and we can be more deliberate in using them.
58:03
Yeah, I love that because my reminds me at my kids school, my daughter's choir director.
58:11
Performance director does that with the kids so that she comes home at the end of the year, with like, a little box and it's filled with notes from all her classmates with, you know, all positive, you know, things they like about her and things she's good at and stuff. And, and of course, yeah, she does it for all the others. So yeah, yeah, I love I love that. That's a great, great exercise, great idea. And from the from the other perspective, also being able to see the good and other people because even people we don't like, for whatever reason, there, there's always be some kind of good we can see and even the people that are difficult. So I think it's a good exercise both ways and be able to see the best in everyone, as well as some being becoming more aware of what's what's best in you. Yeah, I do a leadership presentation called Radical retention. And one of the exercises I share in that presentation is an example of a chairman of a bank, who would write a thank you card for one of his employees every Monday morning. Nice. And part of that whole, the whole intention there is and he was asked like, Well, how do you remember, you know, someone every Monday and he says, if I if I can't think of somebody I'm not paying enough attention. And so he writes a thank you note. And he sent he mails it to their house and it doesn't include like a Starbucks gift card or any of that it's just a handwritten note in a card from from the chairman of the bank to saying why you know, he appreciates you and recognition goes so far.
59:56
You know, not just obviously for for ADHD folks, but
1:00:00
For for any percent Yeah, I remember hearing from a teacher that you know, as teachers get all those presents at the end of the school year, and if you've been teaching a long time, there's only so many you know, flower arrangements or candy bowls or however, you know, whatever people give their teachers at the end of the school year but just for the teacher said the thing that's been most powerful for her the most impactful thing she really enjoys are those heartfelt notes. They might come with a gift as well. But the the those notes from the parents that really came from the heart how that teacher impacted the child, or what's, you know, most meaningful to the teacher? Yeah. And my my wife is a teacher and so I can definitely attest. Yeah, of you. But this has been so much fun. Thank you for for joining us today. How can people get a hold of you and learn more about what you do? Yeah, so my website my coaching businesses ascend with Aviva. And my site is ascend with aviva.com. My emails coach at ascend with aviva.com. That's probably the best way to reach me.
1:01:03
And it's been a pleasure to Dave it's been a pleasure hearing about what you do and getting to know you better during this, you know, our conversation that we had
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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