PODCAST. Radical Gratitude, Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD), and Emotional Freedom Technique with Dr. Cristina Louk.

Dr. Cristina Louk.

In this episode of ADHD Wise Squirrels, we speak with Dr. Cristina Louk, a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology and licensed mental health counselor in Washington. She specializes in ADHD-focused psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, and coaching for women, as well as provides ADHD testing services for adults at Peace Humanistic Therapy.

Understanding ADHD Beyond Stereotypes

Dr. Louk challenges common stereotypes associated with ADHD, emphasizing that it's not just about hyperactivity in children. She sheds light on the diversity of ADHD presentations, dispelling myths and providing a nuanced understanding.

The Hyperactivity Component

Discussing the addition of the "H" in ADHD, Dr. Louk explains that hyperactivity extends beyond physical restlessness. It can manifest as racing thoughts, excitement-induced chatter, or even subtle restlessness. Recognizing these aspects is crucial for accurate diagnosis.

Strategies for Managing ADHD

Dr. Louk introduces practical strategies for managing ADHD, including the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) or tapping. She shares how these techniques can alleviate stress hormones, lower cortisol levels, and provide relief, contributing to better overall well-being.

Stimming and ADHD

Exploring stimming behaviors, Dr. Louk highlights their significance in ADHD. From lip-chewing to knuckle-tapping, stimming serves as a coping mechanism, helping individuals with ADHD ground themselves and stay connected to the present moment.

Radical Gratitude and RSD

Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD) is a term used to describe an intense emotional response to the perceived rejection or criticism commonly associated with ADHD. It often involves an overwhelming fear of disappointing others or being disapproved of, leading to heightened emotional reactions and distress. Individuals experiencing RSD may recall past rejections vividly, even if those rejections are not objectively significant. On the other hand, Radical Gratitude is an approach that involves reframing negative memories and experiences by finding elements to be grateful for within them. This technique aims to shift the perspective on past events, emphasizing positive outcomes or personal growth that may have resulted from challenging situations, promoting a more optimistic and grateful mindset.

Recognizing and Combating Burnout

As an expert in burnout, Dr. Louk discusses the susceptibility of individuals with ADHD to burnout. She shares warning signs and encourages open conversations about mental health.

How to Connect with Dr. Cristina Louk.

• Website: Peace Humanistic

• Email: peace.humanistic@gmail.com

• Phone: 425-276-0612

This episode of the Wise Squirrels podcast for adults with ADHD offers a wealth of information, challenges preconceptions, and provides actionable strategies. Dr. Louk’s expertise and compassionate approach create an engaging, informative dialogue to empower Wise Squirrels and their allies listening. THANK YOU.

• Transcript

  0:00

  So I recall you were diagnosed with ADHD at nine years old. Tell me Tell me a little bit about what you recall from from then.

  0:08

  Yeah, you know, I have a really good memory from them because it was new and novel stuff that was going on, in terms of them questioning, you know, what was going on with me. And it really started in kindergarten for me, when I was really struggling with putting together puzzles. And it wasn't that I couldn't put the puzzle together, it was just I've already done it. And I didn't want to have to do it again. And so that was the first time they sent me for testing, but nothing ever came of it. By the time I hit third grade, you know, it was, it got dire, and I was really struggling in school. And so they sent me for testing again. And then this time, they found out that I had ADHD, and I was hyperactive. And the problem was that I was a girl with hyperactivity. And so school always had a hard time with me, they always struggled with me. And if I was an inattentive girl with ADHD, I probably would have been missed. So I'm really blessed to have had the hyperactive component because it made the adults take notice. So by the time I was in third grade, I did get diagnosed, I didn't get medicated at that time, my parents didn't feel that medication was worthwhile. School was happy and satisfied that I was diagnosed, but they really didn't do any accommodations for me, other than moving the upper reading level. So I was kind of on my own, to fend for myself with my ADHD. So I remember a lot of that time just because it was stuff that was going on. And it was exciting. And what's what's wrong with Christina, and all that attention on me. And so I learned pretty early on that I have ADHD.

  1:47

  And it's interesting, too, that, you know, the more than I speak to guess for the podcast, and and, you know, other folks who work in the, in the medical field or coaches and things like that, and, you know, with, obviously with a focus on ADHD is, is how, how creative ADHD, here's our, you know, fellow why squirrels, and I know you're very creative as well, having having worked in dance. Yes. Tell, tell me a little bit about that career. And yeah, yeah,

  2:23

  so it was my ADHD diagnosis in third grade. That kind of started my dance career. My parents didn't want to medicate, but I was hyperactive, so they needed to keep me busy. So I always wanted to, I was always nagging to take dance. And so they finally got me into some ballet classes. And it really went from there in dance classes, I was able to focus, I was able to, you know, minimize all of my ADHD symptoms, and really kind of hone into that creative aspect of it, you know, the creative side of ADHD is that we think outside of the box, you know, we're really innovated in our thinking processes. And, and if you can find the art form that, you know, really sparks that it's amazing. And for me with my hyperactivity was dance, I ended up staying in dance for many, many, many years. 30 years, I taught ballet, and I love it. And I encourage anybody who's neurodivergent if you have you know, a child, that's neurodivergent, get them into a dance class, you'll be amazed at how much they focus. And you know, as an adult, it's never too late to start, you know, take a dance class, take a pottery class, take an art class, you might be surprised at how much you can focus and really kind of find a nice sense of

  3:39

  peace. Do you find that? You know, what, as folks get older, and lives get busier with, you know, parenting and business and all the things that these more creative artistic endeavors kind of fall, fall to the wayside? Do you find that and in the people that you come across and yeah, you know, a lot of adults

  4:03

  with ADHD we get stuck in ruts. Especially if you were diagnosed later, you know, we when you're diagnosed later, you tend to feel that you have these unser mounting problems. And there's something wrong with you, you know, you don't realize that it's just, you know, a neurodevelopmental, the neurodevelopmental side of you. And if you can hone into something that is creative, you can get a sense of accomplishment back, you know, you can kind of get out of that rut, by working different parts of your brain, by you know, the neuroplasticity of our brain, if we can just ignite other regions of our brain. It can bring us to, to feeling more complete, and getting those thought processed thought processes to start rolling again for us. So yes, get something creative, do something creative, whether it is just crafting or play Playing the piano that you have collecting dust in the corner. Maybe it's just you know, re invigorating an old hobby that maybe you had as a kid?

  5:09

  Are there some exercises or things to do to you know, besides, you know, looking over at that dusty piano? Are there some exercises or ideas that one can do to maybe tap in? Maybe they don't? Maybe they seemingly, I would say seemingly because everybody has creative ideas and things. Maybe they they abandon them as a child. But Are there exercises or ways that you've seen where adults work can can tap back into their creativity and find an outlet?

  5:41

  Yeah, yeah. But I always recommend and it almost goes hand in hand with the social connected this piece that for us ADHD years that we tend to lose our ability to connect with just our community. I tell people all the time, if you're looking for something to do artistically, you know, go to your your local parks and rec, start taking classes, classes for our ADHD brain is learning new and novel information, which is really, really great. It'll teach you a new skill, it'll get you out meeting new people. So you kind of hit a lot of the different, you know, different things that we shouldn't be doing as adult ADHD, ADHD years and just kind of one big fell swoop. So that's what I always recommend is kind of, you know, find a class where you can meet other people, and try something new. The other thing that I always recommend is just be compassionate for yourself, you know, don't try something. And then if you don't do well at it, beat yourself up, you know, we're not going to be perfect at everything. But we need to try new things. Because the new and novel piece of our ADHD is huge. That is the big dopamine hit that we need. So any way you can seek that out is really, really important.

  6:51

  Yeah, it's been interesting for my own journey. And, you know, realizing, obviously, having just been diagnosed not that long ago with ADHD, realizing that my sweet spot is often standing on stages, delivering keynote presentations and workshops and things like that. And, you know, I go way back to the early days where I studied improv at Second City in Toronto, and love, love, love doing improv and how improv has played a big role in my public speaking talents, as well, and some of the curriculum that I've created to so I, I really do see like a lot of value and not just tapping in and finding creative outlets, but also finding maybe ways to incorporate them into the into the work you do. Yeah. Do you find your base? So you, you got your you started? Law? You started in California originally, and you moved to Seattle, and you serve primarily women, right in Washington? Is that right?

  7:54

  I do. I primarily serve women here in Washington state that have ADHD, and a lot of times with comorbid other mental illness because there's a huge prevalence of other types of mental illness with ADHD. So those are mainly the type of women that that seek me out. And I offer psychotherapy and hypnotherapy. And I also offer ADHD testing for adults, which, in my area, there's a huge waitlist for just ADHD testing in general. And for adults, it's even longer. So I I've carved out some space to make that process easy for women with ADHD to get tested. Yeah,

  8:33

  why is there or how long is the wait list? And and you know, what are you finding, finding in the field there?

  8:41

  Oh, the waitlist for neurodevelopmental testing could be anywhere from 12 to 18 months? Wow. Yeah, it's for and they really try to get kids in first because you know, the accommodations for school is so important. However, you know, an adult with ADHD, a lot of us need accommodations at work. And so testing is really, really important. Sometimes just changing some some structure at work can take you from feeling like you're constantly underwater to actually making you feel that you're getting your work done, and finding some successes. So I encourage anybody who's thinking that they have ADHD to get tested, because it gets tested from a source that is going to give you a report that gives you a commendation suggestions, and not just one that is ready to prescribe you medication. I mean, that's great, too. But you also need those accommodations because what if changing one thing at work can make or break you know, your career. So that kind of stuff is important. I want people with ADHD adults with ADHD to know that that's out there for them, that they can actually get those accommodations at work. What are

  9:49

  some examples of those accommodations that you've seen?

  9:52

  So one that for me, personally, that I asked for is if I'm in a presentation, can I get this slides in advance. Because if I have them in advance, and I can kind of review them, that I'm not overwhelmed in the moment, and I have a better idea of what the presentation is going to entail, and then if I can have them in front of me, so I can then you know, check back with the slide, that I have, instead of having to constantly bounce from the screen to the person. For a lot of people with ADHD that can be an environmentally, the stimulus can be a little too much. So for me, that would be a big one. Some people need to have real strict deadlines. You know, a lot of these companies, these tech companies like to have more of the loosey goosey, you know, know, for ADHD, we need to have a deadline. So I, we sometimes have to tell a supervisor, you need to give me five o'clock on Friday, instead of Oh, when it gets done, that doesn't work for us, we need to be you know, held accountable. So those are just two really big important ones. And one another one that is a good one is for people that are hyperactive and sitting for long periods of time is challenging. Ask me for more breaks. If it's a meeting, that's four hours long, well, can I stand? You know, there's there's certain things we can ask for. And oftentimes employers want to give it to, you know, give me these accommodations?

  11:14

  Yeah, those are great, great suggestions, for sure. Great examples. What, what about as far as like, if you have been diagnosed with ADHD? How do you? How do you communicate that at work, in order to make sure that those accommodations are even being considered? Yeah, it couldn't be, you

  11:36

  know, you first really need to know the climate and the culture of your employer, and the work environment, I tell people always first you know, ask around, because some employers might hold it against you, you know, there, it's still out there. And I don't want you know, to tell you that every employer is going to bow down to an accommodation. So ask around, most employers are more than happy to help and and, and accommodate you. So if you think that this is going to work for your employer, go into human resources with your note of accommodations, because they're gonna want to see that you medically need these accommodations. So you'll have your testing, report, you just give that to the employer, and they can look over those accommodations, and then see which ones that they can actually do. They're not going to be able to do all of it. But they might be able to do one or two things. And it's from that list that comes from a clinician that really gives specifics and guidance to the human resource department. And then once you can get that on record, then if your main supervisor is struggling to accommodate that, you can always back go back to human resources, and then they can advocate for you. Yeah,

  12:53

  that's great. That's, that's excellent. What about peace? humanist, I know that's your business. Tell me about that. Yeah, he's

  13:00

  humanistic therapy. So my, it's at my private practice. And my goal for my private practice really was to meet women where they're at know where they're struggling, and provide them with a space that they can learn skills that can bridge our neuro divergent brains, to the neurotypical world, you know, we need to have some basic skills to to get us there, but also a place to process emotions in a safe, compassionate environment. Because we all are affected when most of us anyway are affected by rejection, sensitive dysphoria, and big mood dysregulation. So it's a safe space to process through some of that trauma that we've experienced. And you know, with ADHD, the one kind of piece that no one really talks about is the trauma piece. A lot of us when we were growing up, people were kind to us because we had ADHD, especially if you are hyperactive, even adults, the small little micro aggressions build up over time, and by the time we get to adulthood have have caused us some trauma. And so we need to process that too. So my practice is really just to create a space for women to come and to make peace with their ADHD and also to learn the strengths of their ADHD so we can minimize the symptoms. But we also have some amazing strengths. So I teach them how to lean in, lean into those strengths so we can be successful and rise above

  14:33

  what took you from dance and teaching dance to therapy?

  14:39

  It was those were my two choices. When I was a little kid. I used to play school with my dolls, and I used to teach psychology class and then we would have dance class. And so when I was little, that was kind of my that's what I thought I would do. Well, I just went right into dance because you know, it's it's a career of the youth and that was you know what I Did the psychology was always in the back of my mind. And then when I was 40, I decided, You know what, it's time new and novel, let's go back to school. And I went back to school and got my master's, my PhD and just really leaned into it. And I want to tell people that aren't 40 thinking that I can't change my career. I'm too far in I, you can, I did it. I am now 50 years old, I have a PhD, I have a private practice. And now I'm doing all the stuff I wanted to in psychology that I didn't do when I was younger. So I've had two beautiful careers. So if you think you can't do it, and you have ADHD, guess what you can ADHD is that superpower that can really push us. And to do that, beyond what other people don't think we can do. Yeah,

  15:42

  I remember seeing a statistic that the average person will have, like 12 jobs during their lifetime. And I'm lucky enough this stat 32% of people aged 25 to 44 have considered making a career change within the past year, and 29% of people have completely changed fields since starting their first job after college. So it's pretty Yeah, I mean, it's it is something I think of my own career path. And some of the, I mean, there's certainly underlying similarities and a lot of the things that I've done, it's taken me a long time to kind of connect the dots and realize that and kind of land on, you know, my biggest strength, which is really around communication. But it's interesting, do you have you found that for yourself or your clients to a finding sort of that underlying thing that is similar? Like, let me start here, actually, how is the study in the, in the the art of performing in dance? Like, what are the similarities in that, compared to in therapy or in psychology? Yeah,

  16:49

  you know, for me, in my personal trek, through them, it the underlying thing is education. So in dance, I loved performing, and I loved being on stage, but I got the biggest kicks out of teaching the kids how to do it, and then watching them, and sharing the knowledge. And in psychology, it's kind of been the same, I've really found myself doing a lot of trainings and just teaching people and educating people, because I think if, you know, here you are, you're an adult with ADHD, the more you know, the more you you can then plan to be successful. So for me, the the underlying thing that connected them was mainly just the education piece. But if you looked at kind of the connection, more of the, you know, what we see, and there is kind of a piece of having that performance quality, when you are working with clients, you know, because you have to, when you're a performer, you have to be able to think on your feet, you know, if you've ever forgotten a line, or you're, the person that you're acting next to is forgetting a line, you have to be able to like keep going, the show must go on. And it's the same in therapy. You know, I've had clients that have brought me stuff that kind of floored me. And I have to be able to think on my feet, so I can help them. But that's the beauty of ADHD. That's one of our strengths. We have this ability in crisis to be able to be the most focused, and resilient person who can jump in and do what's needed and not even have to take that forethought.

  18:25

  So what you're saying is every improviser probably has ADHD. It would be a strong bet. They could. Yeah, that's really that's really interesting. And yeah, you know, as I, as I learned about the different print aspects of ADHD, I certainly see. Yeah, a lot, a lot of signs in myself. And I've been mindful, you know, through this whole discovery of avoiding that, that natural tendency of reflecting on the past in a negative kind of, you know, all the what ifs and things like that, too. How do you handle that when your your clients might be dwelling a little too much on the past,

  19:12

  you know, a lot of it for my clients and for myself, and I'll speak for myself on this one is, those what ifs, or any of the memories from the past are often heavily tied to rejection sensitive dysphoria. And a lot of the stuff that comes up is either real or fully fake perceived rejections of something that happened in our past. And that's really how that interaction is, and me and my clients that are processing through some of those memories, you know, in a lot of those memories and with if only I wasn't a failure, you know, if only it only, you know, what if,

  19:56

  right,

  19:57

  I could have just had gotten it together. So a lot of it is that rejection sensitive dysphoria, and there's not a lot of research on RSD. It's not in the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. But it's real, and it's really affecting us. So, when I work with ADHD errs, and we're talking about anything in our past, I'm always very cognizant of what really is it attached to? Is it attached to a memory or a feeling you need to just process through? Or is it RSD? Which sometimes it could just be an not a fictional, a fictional rejection, that didn't even happen, but we still need to process process through it. Like it's real, because it's real to them?

  20:38

  Is RSD commonly associated with ADHD? Or do you know, do can, you know? Yeah,

  20:46

  yeah, it is commonly with people with ADHD I have where I have seen it with other diagnoses. I would like to see more research on RSD and the prevalence with ADHD in particular, but just in my, you know, grassroots anecdotal evidence, I don't think I've met anybody with ADHD that once I've explained what RSD is, haven't endorsed having it. So it's out there. And we do need to be talking about it more, because it's pretty, it's pretty devastating.

  21:22

  What are some of the, like, outward signs of RSD? Yeah.

  21:27

  So here's an example would be like, say, something happened to you when you were like in the fourth grade. And your your memory of it was that you were rejected by what you who you thought was a friend. And all of a sudden, now you're 5560 years old, and you wake up in the middle of the night. And all you can think of is that incident. And for the next three days, you're going to think of that incident, think about how you're a failure, how you were rejected, and you're going to spiral down, and all of a sudden, you're fine, you're depressed, you're, you're anxious, you're feeling all these negative feelings. You don't want to go out anywhere, you're a loser, I just who wants to be around me, I'm gonna close my curtain. So you see this almost depression kind of spiral down. And then after about three days, you kind of just snap out of it. And you're like, okay, and you move on. And what's weird is that memory could be totally fake. Your perception could be fake, but yet, the depression you feel is real. When I get clients that come in to see me, they often say I have depression and anxiety. We test we test for ADHD, they have ADHD. And then over time, we realized their anxiety and depression. Were just from their ADHD, they weren't separate diagnosis at all. They were just what would stem from these RSD bouts that they would experience periodically?

  22:54

  Mm hmm. Yeah, it's a lot to think about there. I mean, I think, personally, for me, I learned how before I was diagnosed with ADHD, I learned how, when you reflect too much on the past, it can lead to depression. And when you when you think too much of the future, it can lead to anxiety. Of course, everybody thinks about the past natural aid, you obviously plan for the future as well. But doing it too much, too often negates it takes you away from focusing on the present. And really, that's where the magic is. Are there strategies or things that you recommend for for people to help them focus more on the present and less on the past? Yes.

  23:39

  So what I have been doing that has been working for me, and this is what I've been pushing for everybody to try. It's called Radical gratitude. And when I have a memory that pops up, or one of my clients have a memory that pops up, find something to be grateful for. So let's talk again about whatever happened in fourth grade or whatever that was, what did that what good came from that? You know, are you more resilient now? Are you able to do something now you wouldn't have been able to do if you didn't have that happened to you, like find something that you are radically great and grateful happened. And I find that then those memories don't come up as much, because you've you've placed a positive spin on it. Now that memory is not one of rejection, maybe it's a memory of how I learned to be resilient. How I Learned to be able to stand there with grace and poise, you know, whatever it is, that has really been working for me and the clients that I've been working with. So it's something to try. It's a way to break free from the pain of the past so we can let it just be a memory because our past is there and we want those memories those good memories right to bubble up every now and again. We want to be able to go out remember when but we don't want to have to go and then remember when so we want it to be like oh yeah, I remember when that happened and I became more resilient. then we can move on and be in the moment. And then it could just be a teaching tool for you, you know, as you go. So, I found that that's been really, really helpful. Another way is just to simply reframe, reframe that situation, you know, Narrative Therapy looks at us, it looks at the story that you tell, and then try to tell it from different viewpoint, or try to pick different pieces of it. And if you can do that, you'll notice that the story is more complex, and it's not as simple as just you're a failure.

  25:32

  Yeah, like that idea. I, I've written a little bit over the years about, about changing your perspective, and I'm learning the term reframing, you know, as, as in a way, it's the same thing it Yeah, it's just changing the way, the way you're thinking of a certain situation. I know, like, because I do I do public speaking training, as you know, I teach the skills as part of what I do. And one thing that I had heard a while back was about how your body your mind experience, like fear. Or the feelings of fear are this are pretty much the same as excitement. So like, you might get goose bumps or chill bumps, you might have the sweats, you might be short, you know, have a flutter in your stomach butterflies, what have you. Both of the feelings are the same. And so when you're really scared or nervous about taking the stage to deliver a presentation or a dance in your case, instead, yeah, you're just excited about it. You know, you've you've obviously practiced, you've rehearsed, you've done all the things, and now it's your chance to share and delight the audience with with your talents. Yeah,

  26:49

  yeah, we often do need to really look at how we look at our emotions. You know, emotions are just what our body is feeling. And as humans, we have to label them. And every feeling that you have has a positive and a negative emotion label attached. And you just need to really kind of look into your body and think, What am I feeling? And then look at both, you know, Is it fear? Is it excitement? Because both could be true, too. But we need to not always go to the negative emotion.

  27:25

  Yeah, it makes makes complete sense to me. I suppose it's difficult, especially not knowing to do that, right. Like, yeah, well,

  27:33

  let's pay. So let's put the layer of ADHD on. So we have a difficulty in it, feet, taking the feeling of our body and putting the label on it. Right, that's, that's kind of where we have, we have this disconnect. We have a hard time feeling hunger pains and think, oh, we need to go eat. So some of us ADHD years, we have a little bit of a disconnect between the Physiol physiological feelings that we're feeling in the moment, the body feelings, and then what's going on cognitively and emotionally inside us.

  28:08

  Oh, that's interesting. I read a book about it was about mind health, and just like just a better approach to overall health. And I remember the author on a section about snacking, the author's said that, you know, if you were snacking a lot, you're probably thirsty and misunderstanding. And if you were to just drink water, instead of get a snack, that would probably solve solve the problem. And so, certainly, with ADHD, I had the terrible habit of not just snacking, but like finishing my wife, and both my kids meals, when we would go and eat out, I would eat mine. And then I would eat whatever was leftover on their plates, too. And I always did it, I always equated it to how my father would never let us leave the table until we finished our plates. And so I would always blame him. And maybe it's respect, I probably still can't, but but I always would say that like, well, you know, that's the way I was raised. We got to finish our plates and eat everything so, but not without realizing that Oh, hello, ADHD. Yeah, addiction. And and, you know, overeating is certainly part of that too, or at least in my experience.

  29:23

  Well, they could also be, you know, this other thing that we were just talking about the technical term for it is interoception. And is that the sense that our internal state of our body like being full, you know, maybe it is maybe it is a learned behavior, but maybe it is that you can't sense that you're full. That's the that's the ADHD component, you know? Yeah.

  29:45

  Yeah. Tell me about Emotional Freedom Technique. What's that?

  29:49

  Yeah. Okay. So Emotional Freedom Technique. It is based on acupressure. So we're looking now at A science that goes back, you know, 3000 years, and it is the energy meridians of the body. And what's super interesting is for for the last, you know, many, many centuries, the meridian system, we didn't have any evidence, but evidence is coming forth and South Korea, scientists have shown that they are finding evidence of the system. So it's really, really exciting that the science is finally catching up to what we've been doing for 1000s of years. But emotional freedom technique uses tapping, and it taps on the Accu pressure points. And it relieves these energy blockages. And the science behind it is so incredible in people with significant and severe PTSD. We're seeing now, people that can do EFT with survivors of you know, big disasters are going in and really bringing relief, it releases the stress hormones. So it lowers your cortisol, I think don't quote me on this, but I want to say by 21%. And so cortisol is that stress hormone. And if you can lower that you can already you know, start feeling better, right away. I use it for myself, all the time. I use it for my clients to when they're really really experiencing a lot of crisis distress, when things have just gotten to the point where they feel like they can't go farther, and they're going to just explode, right? And so we just tap on these pressure points. And we you can just tell over over the course of maybe 15 minutes, if you we start the session, and you say you know I am I am angry at a level five, maybe five is the maximum. By the time we're done, you might say I'm angry at a level one, right? So it really shows that we can bring down the intensity of the emotion that you're feeling and calm you down. It's great. Yeah. And if you interested in tapping, isn't this, most people just call it tapping? You know, definitely google it. There's a lot of videos online. You can try it in the in the quietness and secret nests of your house, and no one knows you're doing it. But you'll find a huge relief. It's great. You

  32:27

  have a YouTube channel. Do you have any videos on there?

  32:29

  I do. Yes, I do, actually. So if you go to my YouTube channel at Dr. Kristina Lok. Yeah, it's I have it, I have one, I walk you through all the points. And we do a whole series of it. So check it out.

  32:43

  It's great. Great. I'll include a link here in the show notes. So that way, folks can click over and check that out. Because it sounds it sounds fascinating. I'm not familiar. I mean, obviously, as far as like acupuncture and things like that goes, you know, there's Yeah, I don't obviously, I don't know the science behind this stuff. But I do know that I remember a family member visiting us in Toronto, and was not feeling great. And like, physically just he felt like he should maybe try some acupuncture. And there's a tiny little place near our old apartment in Toronto, and it's this tiny, little old, elderly Chinese man running the place. And so he went in there, and there's all these, like, plant potted plants in the window. And it's kind of not on descript there's no like, you know, a little bit of signage, but not much. And he went in there. And the acupuncturist was kind of in a state of shock when he told him, You have to go see your heart doctor, right away. And, and he did and ended up having like a triple bypass surgery after that. So anecdotal, of course, but I do, as you said, this is like 1000s of years of doing this stuff. So it's good to hear that sciences is kind of catching up to it to help. Yeah, and

  34:02

  if you're interested in the more, you know, getting actual, like, what is the science behind it, I have a link on my website, in the resource section that is a link to a handout that lists all the different science, the research behind it. And the handout is published by the association. comprehensive energy psychology, which is an organization I actually belong to, and they're great and they're, it's they produce all of the, they let us know all the different science studies behind all of this. So we, you know, have the documentation and proof so if anybody is ever curious, we actually have the receipts so to speak, to show that the research is backing it so you can definitely find that on my website.

  34:47

  So how has ADHD changed your sort of perspective and understanding of of people, including yourself, like how has it changed your perspective?

  35:00

  I don't think it's changed my perspective. I think it is my perspective. And I think it's because I've, because of my hyperactivity, I've always known that something is different with me. And people would tell me that even as a kid, you know, the hyperactivity, you know, what's what's wrong with this one? And so when I got my diagnosis, I wore it like a badge of honor. You know, here you is all thought I was, you know, this, this horribly spoiled child who couldn't control herself What's wrong with her? Well, this is, there's nothing wrong with me. I have ADHD, you know, became this, this whole thing that so my, I wouldn't say it changed. It is my perspective, everything I do has been through the lens of my ADHD. And I never saw it as a detriment ever. I always saw it as something that I can do that you can't, oh, don't you wish you had ADHD to? I mean, isn't that sad? That's how I looked at it when I was a kid. Um, but it was, it was like, I worked with pride. It wasn't really till I was an adult that I got that negative bias from people. Oh, you have ADHD. You know, I never really heard that before. Because as a kid, I never really let you say that to me. As an adult, I became a little more, I guess, interested in what the other side had to say. But I think that, you know, if you have ADHD, it should be the lens, you look through life at will with because, you know, everything we do, is based on our ADHD, we are different. And it's not a bad thing.

  36:34

  I think it's a good thing with, you know, with the switch from add to ADHD, and I know, there's there's been some confusion on that, with that additional H for hyperactivity. And also, and also even defining hyperactivity, because, yeah, the naughty the, and certainly, you know, traditionally with this, my understanding is that, you know, it's always been associated with, you know, naughty boys who can't sit still. And so the hyperactivity, but even in girls, you would imagine, you know, you could imagine hyperactivity being shown or being displayed in certain ways. But I think as adults, my understanding, at least in certainly in myself, we've, we've kind of find found ways unknowingly, of masking maybe some of that hyperactivity. What are what are some examples of that that you've seen? And maybe, what are your thoughts on the on the big H word?

  37:29

  Yeah. Well, you know, it's really, as we get to know more about this diagnosis is really the change in the terms. And it's gone through so many different term changes over the years. And the inclusion of the the losing the Add term, and making it just universally ADHD, I think was really, really great. Because the hyperactivity component is in all of us, even if you're not, I was physically hyperactive as a child, I was jumping out of trees. But you know, everybody with ADHD is hyperactive. Some were, you know, it might be when you are hyper focused. You can't shut up. You were talking a mile a minute. And Where's that coming from? Well, I'm really excited about this topic, and I really can't stop talking and medulla. So that's one way that it can come across, as you know, but that's hyperactivity. Another one is just being restless. I can't sit still. I just My legs are constantly bouncing. I'm constantly shifting in my seat. It might be the real quiet child sitting on the couch that the quiet inattentive, ADHD, and yet they're bouncing and kind of a little bit, right. It's this restlessness. And then another way it can come is in racing thoughts. You know, we don't might not have one thought we have 100 thoughts that are coming in with five different topics, and they just won't shut up. And you're like, I just want to get my brain to be quiet. Well, you can sit there incredibly still, and have your mind racing. Well, that's hyperactivity. So it's really hard. When we think of hyperactivity, don't think of just physically jumping up and down. And we always think of those little boys. Right? That couldn't sit still. Yeah. But it's more than that. Right? It could be the little girl in the back of the classroom. That can't focus because her mind just can't stop racing.

  39:17

  Yeah, I chew my lips stimming or is it stemming? I've learned this word recently, and have chronically done it, like chew the inside of my mouth or my lips, and I can't stop. I've tried everything to stop doing it. And and just, yeah, can't seem to stop. But we have realized that that is very much part of this, or at least for me. Yeah, those

  39:43

  self suits oftentimes come from some hyperactivity that we had. So that probably started as kind of a hyperactive trait that actually then over time made you feel calm do and so you went right to it. A lot all of us stimming is a big thing. And for a long time, we thought stimming was only something that people with autism did. But anybody neurodivergent we all do things that find, you know, give us comfort. And so stimming is big. All of us do some storks, some sort of stimming. What

  40:16

  are some other examples?

  40:18

  I chew my knuckles, that's what I do. Isn't that strange, my husband hates it, he's like, stop doing that, like I can't make calms me down. So people bounce like, and when they're sitting, they kind of gently bounce the back of the chair, that they'll do twirl their hair, a lot of people twirl their hair in the back. Some might pinch themselves or to put their finger nails into their palms, it's that they're very individualized. It's whatever distracts you, and brings you back into your body. And because remember, with ADHD, sometimes we can be a million miles away in a whole different reality in our head. And we need something to bring us back. And so it does. It's something that's physical that brings us back into our body. So it's very individualized for a lot of people. And a lot of people don't even know what they're stimming they just think, well, I just I just do this thing on stimming.

  41:12

  Yeah, I mean, I only just figured out what it was. And actually that there's a name for it beyond you and my lips. So yeah, interesting. Well, this has been amazing. Christina, thank you so much. Are there any topics or anything that I didn't ask you that you that you would like to cover? You know, one other

  41:30

  topic that I we could just kind of briefly go over which I think is really, really important in the in the ADHD space, is that of burnout. And that's one of the other things I specialize in is burnout in people that are in the helping professions and especially with people with ADHD, burnout, we're very susceptible to burnout, because we tend to get super excited about things that are, you know, interesting to us, we put so much energy into it, we might hyper focus, which sometimes can be really damaging, if you're hyper focusing all of your energy into something and then we come crashing down. And we have burnout and compassion fatigue. And so it's really important for us to you know, recognize the signs of burnout, and get help that we need, especially if we have ADHD,

  42:22

  are there tips around that like, like, actually getting the help or recognizing that burnout is happening? Yeah, you know,

  42:29

  if you're noticing that you are missing deadlines, that you are cynical, pessimistic, you're just having a really hard time, you know, getting into the groove at work. If you're having any of those early signs, you know, get help, go go see a therapist, go talk to somebody, you have to the important thing with burnout is you have to talk to other people. Because if you don't, it will get worse. And then it can get to where you have, you know, chronic physical health symptoms, you might have chronic migraines, you might have heart palpitations, you might be you know, having chronic depression, anxiety, fatigue, you'll stop taking care of yourself, it can actually turn into a really serious condition, which could lead to some really dramatic effects. So if you're feeling when if you're no longer excited to go to work, and you're, you know, you're feeling some of these symptoms, talk to somebody, you know, talk to a friend, a colleague that you trust, see a therapist, go and, and find a group, I'm doing a free workshop for anybody who's interested, it's on Zoom. And it goes through like all the signs to recognize burnout. I'm gonna give free strategies to prevent and manage burnout, and also a whole bunch of stuff to do that you can create a culture of well being at work. It's a workshop that I do identity agency I've done it for for a lot of people, I do it for free, because it's burnouts real, and we shouldn't Yeah, we need to know the signs and symptoms. So if you're interested in that, that's on my website to get it's a free workshop, no obligation, and you will learn a ton of information. Even if you don't have ADHD, it's and you think you might have burnout? You know, come you'll learn some some good stuff

  44:27

  to that point. That was a perfect segue. I'd be asking. Yeah, how can people get a hold of you? Yeah,

  44:32

  so my website is peace. humanistic.com and that's peace, like the hippie right key ac.com So that is my website and you can always email me as well at peace. humanistic@gmail.com And you can always call me to my business peace, humanistic therapy phone number 425-276-0612