PODCAST. Self-Employment and Career Success with ADHD with James Fell.
Navigating Career Success and ADHD.
In a candid conversation with renowned fitness writer, historian, and author James Fell, we delved into the intricate relationship between career success, solopreneurship, and ADHD. From his personal experiences to professional insights, Fell provided valuable perspectives on overcoming challenges, leveraging strengths, and achieving balance in a world often shaped by neurodiversity.
Diagnosed with ADHD at 53, James Fell is the author of two volumes of bestselling "sweary history" books titled On This Day in History Sh!t Went Down, The Holy Sh!t Moment: How Lasting Change Can Happen in an Instant, and Lose it Right: A Brutally Honest 3-Stage Program to Help You Get Fit and Lose Weight Without Losing Your Mind.
Fell has bylines in the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, the Guardian, TIME Magazine, and many others. Prior to switching to writing history, he wrote about fitness and the science of motivation. Donโt miss his amazing newsletter.
Here are some of the topics discussed on the ADHD Wise Squirrels podcast.
Career Challenges and Solutions: Fell shared his journey of navigating career challenges while grappling with undiagnosed ADHD. From struggling to comprehend complex subjects in college to finding solace in Ritalin's effects on comprehension, he shed light on the unique obstacles faced by individuals with ADHD. His resourcefulness in utilizing Ritalin as a "translation device" underscores the importance of finding personalized solutions to thrive in academic and professional settings.
Impact of ADHD on Work and Productivity: Reflecting on the impact of ADHD on his work habits, Fell highlighted the tendency to become hyper-focused on tasks of interest while grappling with distractions and impulsivity. He candidly discussed the role of anxiety as a comorbidity, emphasizing the need for tailored treatment approaches to address both ADHD and anxiety effectively. Fell's journey exemplifies the importance of seeking professional guidance and experimenting with medication and therapy to optimize productivity and well-being. We recommend doing so with a doctor.
Strategies for Success: Despite the challenges posed by ADHD, Fell shared practical strategies for achieving career success. His transition from traditional publishing to platforms like Substack underscores the significance of adapting to evolving market dynamics and leveraging technology to reach broader audiences. By embracing platforms like Substack, Fell exemplifies the power of resilience and innovation in carving out alternative paths to career fulfillment. He also inspired Dave to relaunch the Nice Maker on Substack.
Balancing Work and Well-being: Through his personal health scare and ongoing recovery, Fell gained valuable insights into the importance of prioritizing well-being alongside professional aspirations. His commitment to maintaining a healthy work-life balance underscores the significance of setting boundaries, prioritizing self-care, and fostering resilience in the face of adversity. By reframing success beyond financial metrics, Fell encourages individuals to cultivate holistic well-being and fulfillment in their careers.
Embracing Neurodiversity: Fell's journey serves as a testament to the potential for success and fulfillment despite neurodiverse challenges. By embracing his ADHD diagnosis and leveraging it as a source of creativity and resilience, Fell exemplifies the transformative power of self-awareness and self-acceptance. His advocacy for neurodiversity highlights the importance of fostering inclusive work environments that celebrate diverse perspectives and talents.
James Fell's story offers invaluable insights into navigating career success while grappling with ADHD. From overcoming challenges and leveraging strengths to prioritizing well-being and embracing neurodiversity, Fell's journey inspires individuals to embrace their unique traits and pursue meaningful careers on their own terms and uncensored.
-
0:00
So you were diagnosed with ADHD at 53? Right? Yep. Okay. And yeah, so I was I was diagnosed last year at 50. It's been, yeah. Been a pretty wild ride. So us, your background is in is in fitness. Right. So you started writing as a fitness writer. Is that right? Yeah. I
0:21
mean, I done a master's degree in history. Yeah, I finished in 96. And had thought about becoming a professor. But it just, you know, with staying in Calgary and being married and having kids, it just, it wasn't going to work out. So I ended up getting an MBA so I could get a job. And, and I worked in marketing till the age of 40. And I really didn't like the whole marketing thing. Like it was just, I did it for a paycheck. And, but I'd really, because of the, because of the history background, I learned to love telling stories learn to love writing. And the choice of becoming a fitness writer was, that was, that was a strategic marketing decision. My, my goal? Are we like recording now or are we? Yeah, we're
1:11
recording. Yeah.
1:13
So you might want to edit that part out. My goal was to become a full time writer. And, you know, I thought about, oh, well, I could write a novel. And then I did some research. And I'm like, the, the likelihood of making it as a novelist, like making a living at it was so remote, that my marketing brain just said, Yeah, okay, you need to make a better strategic decision here. And fitness was something that from a strategic marketing perspective, I looked at and thought I can make a living doing that full time. Because, you know, I, it was sort of like, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Most of the fitness writers were just not very good. And I thought, okay, there are enough opportunities via freelancing and writing books, and maybe some consulting and speaking, like, there's enough revenue, opportunities, writing about fitness, weight loss, etc, that I could make enough money at it to do it full time, because I wanted to quit my marketing job. And, and I still ended up doing a lot of marketing, but I was selling myself now, which was a lot more well tolerable, I guess. And, and so that's why I chose fitness because I knew a lot about it. And I wasn't like, you know, a recognized expert, but, but I was I was a good storyteller. And I was a good writer. And so I interviewed experts. And you know, within a year of starting, I had a column in the LA Times. And then a couple of years after that, I had a column and the Chicago Tribune that was getting republished mull over the world, and I had books published and all that kind of thing, but it was, it was not my true calling. And after about a decade or so I started to get bored with it. Tell me
3:09
about the military history course lecture that you had in college, who was the one that kind of inspired you to get excited about history?
3:19
Oh, okay. So the, the, the process name, I suspect, you know, just knowing how old he was back then that would have been 1991. So he's probably not with us any longer, I would guess. But his name was less. Not all. I remember his name. And the course was, I think it was military history from Napoleon to the present. And he was just such a dynamic storyteller. That, you know, I'd been flunking out of university. And, and because I hadn't yet found my thing, right, I take this one course with this professor that was just told such great stories that it's like, okay, I'm actually really into this, this guy has inspired me to learn more about history. And it worked well. Because the only thing that I'd really sort of enjoyed reading when I was younger was, you know, fantasy novels. Well, also science fiction, but I read a lot of fantasy. And this was like, Okay, there's a connection here. Because history is, is you know, it's got the swords, not the sorcery, but, but this is a legitimate thing that I can study and get a degree in that is in line with, you know, a previous passion of mine of reading fantasy novels. So I ended up becoming hyper fixated on it and taking, you know, every possible history course that they would like me and ended up you know, doing really well and eventually getting a master's degree in it.
4:53
And do you think, like, at the time did you realize I mean, obviously you're thinking you No focusing on history, but also on the fact that, you know, obviously a good lecture I would imagine would be a great storyteller and being able to weave in great stories to get you interested in history. And, and by retelling those stories, whether it's, you know, verbally or writing or whatever, you've got to be a good storyteller. So how does storytelling kind of weave in to that, like, Did you realize who like stories, like there's a connection there? Or did you realize kind of that later on?
5:31
I mean, I didn't give it a lot of thought it was just, you know, there was a light went off in terms of, finally there is something that is kind of legitimately accepted that I can that I can study, right? That, that my brain doesn't just say, I'm bored, that I have to constantly power through, like, for the first time in my life, at the age of, I don't know, 22 There was a passion for something academic, because I'd been a see I barely passed high school, you know, this was back when it was really easy to get into university at the University of Calgary. And so, you know, I was a C student. I went to university, you know, I didn't, I didn't go to university right away, I worked, you know, as a construction, laborer, bartender, all that kind of stuff. bank teller, for a couple of years didn't like any of those jobs. And the thought, Okay, fine, I'll go to university and promptly began failing, because I just, I wasn't interested in any of the stuff that I was learning. And then for the first time, I take this one course, and I'm like, this is interesting. And it allowed me to learn how to write because I, I read so much, that, you know, some of it, it had been become ingrained, I mean, that Stephen King says that, you know, the best way to become a good writer is to read a lot and to write a lot. And so I've done the reading a lot part. And then when it came to taking history classes, it was like, Okay, now I have an opportunity to, to read a whole bunch of different facts from a bunch of different sources, and then weave it into my own narrative, and actually create something and get good grades on it. Because, you know, my it took a while before I got good at it, but I was, it was, like I was, wasn't just determined to get good grades. But it was like, I wanted to tell a good story in the papers that I was writing and actually entertain the professor and have the professor think that hey, this was well written, this guy can this guy can write and, and so it just, it kind of took off from there. And then why remember my defense committee for my master's thesis defense, the the out of department guy was from the Poli Sci department. And he was the first guy to speak up during the defense, and he said it, he found my thesis, very entertaining. All right, we're off to a good start here.
8:05
That's amazing. Well, have you thought about like the connection between storytelling as like, because you were a waiter or bartender, you know, even working in construction, or I know you planted trees as well, like that kind of work. I mean, when you're kind of working in the field, or forest, so to speak, you know, you're probably just chattering to other people around you during the day. And then certainly, as a good speaking, as a recovering server myself. I actually enjoy I love the work because of the interaction and conversation. So do you think that storytelling kind of played a role in in those roles? I mean, a bank to bank teller probably not as much, but
8:53
no, actually, I don't think it did. Because I really did not like any of those jobs. And well, I mean, if it did, it was indirect. Because I was always a daydreamer, Mom, I told myself stories that, you know, I would like to insert myself into books that I'd read, or, you know, just I had a very active imagination where I was often you know, getting into trouble at work, because I was distracted. I was I was daydreaming about somewhere else. I would much rather be Yeah. And so when it came time to start writing, it seemed very natural to me, because I was taking that storytelling ability that had been running like, you know, a hamster on a wheel through my head for my entire life. And finally finding an outlet for it. And, you know, I would sometimes when I was hanging out with friends, I would, I would, you know, sort of Be a chatty guy. But you know, not not always a ton. But that and one of the reasons why I went into marketing after doing my master's degree was because, you know, I needed to get a job. And I have this master's in history, which wasn't really going to help much. And it was my mother that suggested that, okay, well, if you're not going to do a PhD, you could do an MBA and that would make you very hireable. You know, you would be able to, to make a good living at that. Yeah, good. You
10:33
start a stockbroker, right. Like she she was big into this docks.
10:37
Oh, yeah. And she, she wanted me to go work with her. But there wasn't enough Ritalin in the world to get me to do that job. Because you know, just the whole number crunching thing, it seems so unreal, like there's your it's numbers on a screen and trade this and trade that and money is pretend. And I just I couldn't wrap my brain around it. Whereas when it came to going into marketing, a lot of it was writing. And you okay, you research stuff. And then you tell people what you think, and you communicate. And so there was a lot of sort of strategic planning and thinking and writing. So I was able to use my creative writing skills to have a pretty good marketing career, even though I was writing about boring shit, like technology and whatever. Yeah. And do you mind if I swear on this? No, it's not at all. Yeah. All right. It's unnecessary historian. So yeah, Boris, it, I did it because I had to do it, you know, wife and kids that I needed to support and so I powered through but, but you know, by the age of 40, it was like, I cannot do this bullshit anymore. And so I, with a very supportive wife, I, I ended up getting a part time executive director role that paid quite well. And I did that for two and a half years, while I launched my writing career until it got to the point where I could do it full time.
12:02
And that's when you started writing about fitness your body for body for wife, I believe came from, by the way, body for wife is interesting, because are this the story that that I understand where that because you correct me if I'm wrong, but like you were, you would set a date to propose to your wife and wanted to be fit, you know, be to be in good shape, you know, for that big day. And, by the way, like taking a step back when I when I learned about this about you, I thought that's really interesting, because with undiagnosed ADHD, ADHD years, and again, generalizing, of course, being the novice that that I am. But learning every day, more and more. ADHD years tend to do very well, when there is a date when there is a deadline, when you have a deadline, like a hard date, that really does help you even if it's an arbitrary date out of the air. So I was curious, when when I read about that, that you had this date in mind, I assume to propose to your wife and you wanted to get in shape ahead of that date. What are your What are your thoughts on that?
13:13
That? I mean, that makes sense. I actually didn't know that. That having deadlines helped drive people with ADHD because it's not something that I've really done a bunch of research into myself. It's just like, oh, I have it far out. And so but that makes sense. Because what triggered it was, I had been thinking about proposing and I thought, Okay, well, it was, it was early September, and and we just gotten back from a summer vacation. And I was thinking about proposing on Valentine's Day. And, and we've gotten back from vacation. I saw we got our pictures back from the developer. It was that long ago. It was 1993. Yeah. And I'm looking and I'm like, wow, I really I just graduated from my undergrad. And I'm like, wow, I really put on the freshman 16 times, like three, you know, seeing these beach photos have I gotten very flabby. And I thought, okay, it just popped into my head that, well, if I'm going to propose in mid February, I should I should get in shape. And so I got sort of like halfway there. I didn't really set any sort of weight loss goals. But you know, by mid February, I was in quite a bit better shape, but I just I kept going because by that time I developed a passion for it, but it was a rough start. It was not, you know instantly. You know, passionate about it. It was the first couple of months. Were pretty rough. And but I was at university all the time, and we had a really nice gym that was free, because I was a university student. And after a couple of months, I was just starting to notice some differences. And I was making friends. And it was a nice break from class. And, and I was just, I started to really get into the social culture of it. And you know, got to know the people that worked there. And, and, you know, it was just, it was a university gym. So there was a lot of like, young, attractive fit people to hang out with. So and it was like, and, you know, and I was losing flab and starting to, you know, then I gotten into weightlifting, I'm starting to build muscle, and it's like, I'm kind of starting to feel like I belong here. So it was, it was rough to get started. But then, you know, I ended up sticking with it long enough for the passion to, to kick in, where, you know, there's been ups and downs and changes about what it is that I'm most excited about. And now I'm very much more a home gym person I don't want to be I used to love going to the gym, but now it's like, okay, I work from home the idea of actually driving to a gym, it's like, fuck that. I don't want to do that. Yeah.
16:21
Right. Right. Well, but it's interesting, too, because exercise is one of the best things. I mean, obviously, that's, that's great for anyone. But for ADHD years. Also, exercise is very important. And my understanding is that, because we lack dopamine receptors, we don't get as much dopamine. And so we find we crave dopamine in different ways. And exercise is one of those ways that you can really produce a lot of dopamine, which then satisfies you, and then you find that you can, you know, do a lot, you can be a lot more focused on what you're working on, after working out or after receiving that dopamine. That's why also with ADHD, or undiagnosed addiction is, is quite likely. I mean, we're quite, we're quite susceptible to that. And I've dabbled in plenty of beer drinking in my in my day. So, so yeah, so finding something finding an outlet. I think a key thing there, too, by the way, is the fact that you found community, at school, around the gym. And I think, you know, I think that's such an important thing, too, is finding finding community and the things that you're interested in, because, you know, had you just been there by yourself, you may not have kept going back.
17:47
i Yeah, I think at the time, like if I'd started by saying, Okay, I'm going to buy a Bowflex or whatever, and we motorhome never would have worked. Whereas now like, I have quite a nice home gym down in my basement. And, and I like to, I like working out by myself now because it's just so easy. It's you know, it's 15 feet from my office. And I've got the discipline now. But you know, my favorite thing I would say is cycling. I like to run as well running as I like the what running does for me, I like the benefits, the physical benefits of it. But it's it's not quite as exciting as as cycling. And another thing about the running is that I can do it all through the winter. You will not get me on an indoor bike, I've got to be outside. But you know, for the for the winter, I can run hard all winter long, and then come spring like when the snow melts. I can get on my bike. And I'm automatically like, in really good shape because I've been running so hard. Yeah, that, you know, doing a lot of cycling. If you go and try running, you're gonna suck. But if you run your ass off and then jump on a bike, it takes like a week and you're good. That's I like this. I like the speed associated with running. There's a lot of adrenaline associated with it. The scenery changes so fast. It's like I go for a run and after like 12 kilometers, it's like, okay, I'm bored now. I don't want to do this anymore. Whereas cycling I will go until I'm dead. Like how much how much time do I got as my wife expecting me to come home and make dinner? Or or you know, am I utterly exhausted is my crotch hurt? That kind of stuff. So you know, I'll do like bike rides that are over 100 kilometers long. Wow,
19:43
that's amazing. Yeah, I did a I did. I've been getting more and more into hiking like I really love just getting into the woods and just clear in my head and thinking through life, whatever. And I went on a hike at a State Park not far from where I live, late summer, and I did this like, it's like a five mile loop or something. But there was like this backward campsite. And so I thought, well, you know what, I'll do the loop and then I'll walk out to the campsite, go check that out. So I did that. But then realize like, oh, wait, I'm not on a loop anymore. Now I have to actually turn around and back. Back to so by the end of it, I was I had hiked like 21 kilometers, like 30 miles and like, and it was like 30 degrees Celsius, like heat. Like it was like hot hot out. And, but I mean, I felt great, but similar. My wife was like, I thought you're going for like an hour hike. Like, I hope you had some water with. Yeah, thankfully. Yes. I did have the Camelback thankfully. So I was. Yeah, but that last stretch was just like, Oh, my God, but it felt great. You know, and having lived to tell the tale. Feels good about that, too. But
21:01
yeah, the other thing I like about the especially the more intense cardiovascular or aerobic exercise like running is that, you know, one thing I do know about ADHD is the primary comorbidity is anxiety. And I had started to experience more anxiety the last few years, because I mean, it has been a ship NATO have asked that we've been living. Yes. That it really does just help. I mean, I don't know, it's probably an unscientific analysis. But I think when you exhaust yourself from a really intense workout, that it just kind of burns the anxiety off a bit.
21:44
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it does, it does help for sure. I mean, I think, you know, and you're sort of peak level stress, like so many others was in 2020, right, like, kind of pandemic, and, and, you know, the political politics and all that good stuff that that kind of led you to, to that level of anxiety, putting on 20 pounds to I believe,
22:10
a little more than that. But talking about actually, it got worse after the election, which was what led me to get diagnosed. And it was the thing that I that I figured out was that what was what was driving me crazy was my career success. And so at first, so in 2020, there was three different things for me to worry about. One was, you know, the US election, even though I'm Canadian, I was just very stressed out about it. It's like, man, we that Trump cannot be reelected. But it was gonna be horrible. And, and then, of course, COVID Yeah, I was worried about catching that. And, and, you know, having something like I didn't, I wasn't worried about dying, but I was worried about being fucked up for a long time and having it, you know, the hearing horror stories about long COVID and stuff like that, and not being able to exercise and, and, and just having it, it having a really long term negative effect on my health. And then the third thing was the career shift was that I had, my career was in the toilet. And then I started writing the history stories. And they were very popular right out of the gate, but they weren't making me any money yet. And I didn't know if I was going to be able to make money. And then shortly after the election, I I launched a Patreon. And it I was very nervous about doing that, because the thing about about launching a Patreon is that what if you don't get very many paid subscribers, say you get enough to make 500 bucks a month, you still have to do the work to satisfy those paid subscribers. Yes. And, and I needed a lot more than 500 bucks a month. So it and yet the research was showing that only 3% of Patreon creators made over 1000 And it's like for this to be worthwhile, I need to make, you know, several 1000 baht and I was like, I don't I don't know if there's that many people that are willing to give me money. Whereas my wife was like, your fucking column was read by 5 million people last month launched the goddamn page. Yes, yes, yes. And I said, Okay, fine. So I launched it and I hit like, you know, 1000 bucks a month in like two or three hours. And wow, that's great. And so, I within three months, I was In the top 30 for all writers on the platform, which led to substack coming to me and offering me a boatload of money to switch platforms. They said, You know, we're a much more writer friendly platform. And we will give you a whole lot of money to switch. And I said, Wow, that is a whole lot of money. Okay. So I switched to sub stack. So all of a sudden, you know, I'm, my financial woes are over. And then I self published the book, On this day in history, shit went down, and thinking, Oh, this will probably do okay, but it's self published. So I don't know how much money it's gonna make. Well, my Facebook had been taking off like mad. And the book sold a stupid amount of copies. And when you when you self publish, your margins are great. Yeah. And so I was making so much more money than I could have imagined possible. And I didn't even have to do any public speaking, I just had to stay at home at swear people on the internet. And it was it was just financially was going so well. And then you couple that with, okay, Trump is out and the insurrection failed. And now I'm doubly vaccinated, and I'm making just an ass load of cash. There's, there's so much this just going well, why am I still so fucking stressed out? And it was actually getting invited to give a talk about the link between ADHD and creativity, a TEDx talk in Romania, that I said, Okay, well, I should probably do some research on this, that it was, this was the kind of holy shit moment that made me realize why I was still so anxious. And what it was, was that people with ADHD, compared to those who don't have it, you have them engage in a creative endeavor. And if there is a reward associated with that creative endeavor, those with ADHD will work much harder and be much more focused to get the reward associated with being creative. Yeah, and that was exactly what was happening to me because being self published, and you know, not so I would, I had the sub stack where I could do creative sales pitches to get more paid subscribers, and I could see it pay off instantly, it's like, I'm going to write something that's going to get me more paid subscribers, and I would post it to Facebook, or I would send it to my free subscribers, and then conversions would come through and I would run the numbers and I'm like, Holy shit, that made me 1000 bucks. And it took me 30 minutes. And, or I would write a creative ad to sell my self published books. And I would see that instantly, I sold hundreds of books, which made up you know, a whole bunch of money. And, and so I became obsessed over the money because for 10 years, I had made a very mediocre income as I mean, for a writer I did great. Yeah, compared to a marketing executive, not not nearly so much. Yeah, all of a sudden, it's like, I have lost time to make up here. It's like I'm shooting gold bricks. And I became very obsessed over the numbers of I became very obsessed over making money because, like, literally, everything I did after 10 years of trying all sorts of different things, and only making you know, moderate income, all of a sudden, everything I did worked, and and I could get more paid subscribers and I could sell more books. And, and, you know, my, my income went up fivefold, and then then it went up, you know, 10 fold. And, and so I was, I was just so focused on that, that I was a ball of anxiety and like, I couldn't do anything else. Because how can I you know, go and work out when instead I could sit at my computer for an hour and and make a whole bunch more money. Right? And, and so it became very tough to pull away from that. And it was the, it was the Ritalin that helped because it allowed me to not obsess over it because what I do is is I get up in the morning and I will write and work and and promote and all that kind of stuff. And then by about you know noon or one o'clock that's like Okay, it's time to do other shit it's time to work out buy groceries, meal plan housework, that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's what allows me to step away from my computer and and do the other things that allow me to have a balanced life and not be stressed out. Yeah, but but constantly you're sitting at your computer trying to figure out more and more ways to make more and more money, money that I didn't even need that, that it was just like, okay, you know, if I want to buy oceanfront property on Vancouver Island, I need that money. You know, that's that's kind of my dream, but it's it's not something that I was struggling to pay bills or anything. Yeah, that that it became this, this obsession that got me into this anxiety spiral that, that I realized no, this didn't have anything to do with Trumper or COVID anymore, this was this was about, you know, being obsessed about my career. And it was the whole hyper fixation, that the medication allowed me to not be so hyper fixated anymore. And then the next sort of step associated with that was a big book deal. So we, I, I did two books self published, they did really well. And then so my agent was able to get me a huge book deal with Bantam and, and so the the dynamic there changed, because they gave me a huge advance. And now I'm, instead of now I'm looking at earning out my advance, it's, it's not a debt that you have to pay back. But before I ever make another penny off of these two books, the advance has to earn out, it was a really big advance, so it's gonna take a long fucking time.
31:41
And I'm gonna have to sell a lot of books. And not only that, but the, the margins on the per book is a lot lower, because it's not self published any longer, right? So the obsession of being able to the obsession of chipping away at this, this giant advance is far less than it was when it's like, you know, every every book I sold was X amount of dollars, and you sell 100 books, and it's like, oh, wow, that's quite a bit of money. Yeah. So that that helped. And then now the latest thing that I'm actually kind of, ironically grateful for is Facebook, fucking over all page owners by killing our reach. So that was, you know, I have over 300,000 followers on my Facebook page. And that was where 90% of my sales came from. And sometime around last spring, which interestingly was right when I unpublished my self published books. In order to start promoting the new the new Bantam version, yeah. was right around when I saw my reached go to absolute shit. And it went down by about 80%. And I, you know, I'd seen ebbs and flows in the Facebook algorithm. Yeah, but this was not that this was this was they, they just killed it. And not just for me, but I have a lot of friends with big Facebook pages. And all of us, our reach just got absolutely nuked. And it's only gotten worse since then. And, and so I made a decision. Fuck this place, I'm done with it, like 90% done with it. Because it was just not paying off anymore. I wrote a I had posted a piece on on January 1, saying that I have been posting to Facebook four or five times a day for 13 years, in order to promote my work. And it has rewired my brain not in a good way. But it's no longer paying off financially. And it's no longer paying off and the dopamine hits there. Because I my interaction has just gone to shit. Yeah. And so what I what I've decided to do instead is that the one thing that's always continued to do well is E newsletter, that I have really high open rates. So I decided Alright, I am going to focus on my substack e newsletter instead. Because it's not dependent upon the algorithm. And you don't have to babysit it. You don't have to try and gave him the elbow algorithm. People don't expect nearly as much interaction with an E newsletter. And, and so, it I made this big announcement on January 1 posted it to substack and then I paid Facebook to boost the post promoting this announcement that basically said fuck Facebook on the sub stack and it worked. I paid him like 1500 bucks. And and I got like I went from 20 1000 to 33,000 free subscribers in a matter of a few days. And even though I wasn't asking for new paid subscribers, I got hundreds of new free one or paid ones that more than paid for the campaign. So smart I am, the campaign was actually really profitable, the ROI was huge, at least four to one. And, and so I'm going to continue the, to run these types of ads to milk my feet because the ads go to my 300,000 Plus Facebook followers to continue to convince as many as I can to go to substack, because it's much more reliable, they're going to get every news story, they're going to get an email, whether they read it or not is up to them. But it'll allow me to continue to sell books a lot better to grow that, and I'll get more paid subscribers. But also very important for me is that because my reach on Facebook has been killed. Being ADHD, I was I was pretty addicted to Facebook, that was where that was where all the money was coming from. And it was not just giving me financial rewards, but dopamine rewards. But now both of those are gone. The financial rewards or Facebook are dead. And the dopamine rewards are also gone. Yeah, so it's allowing me to make a pretty clean break, where I'm not I haven't given up on Facebook 100% I've gone from, you know, 25 to 30 posts a week to three. And it's largely promoting, when I have a new story that's on substack i will link it on Facebook and say here you go. By the way, while you're there, fucking subscribe because Facebook sucks now. Yeah. Yeah, and, and so that, you know, strategically financially, it made a lot of decision. But Emotionally, it made a lot of sense for me too, because I have been trying to, to restrain my Facebook addiction for years. And it finally took the company screwing me over to break the
37:15
habit. It's something that I've been telling people for many years, you know, especially earlier on in my digital marketing space that when I was doing that, and even as a speaker for Google, you know, I would remind people that like you are you're building your business on rented land, you know, like you don't own it, like email marketing you own assuming you're backing up that list. But but, you know, at least with email, you can email your friends, fans, followers and let them know, Hey, we're moving over here now. And hopefully they'll follow otherwise, if Facebook or whatever the social network is, it locks you out. And I learned this back in oh seven or oh eight, maybe I went to use Twitter on a Friday and it says your account has been suspended due to suspicious activity. And I didn't do anything. And I'm like, what the hell it was a mistake. And so but it was this realization, I actually spoke to Nora Young who runs spark on CBC about H O podcasting comrade, and broadcasting comrade. But yeah, we talked about it because I had this realization that No, I mean, Twitter owned my rolodex, so to speak. And now I couldn't contact anybody. And I didn't know some people's real names because Twitter could be anonymous. This is back when Twitter was actually something worth going to. I don't advise that anymore. But it is interesting. So substack seems like a logical smart move for you. Are you doing like retargeting to target people that go to your Facebook page elsewhere online, so like remarketing retargeting, or?
38:55
No, it's just, I've just been boosting, just been boosting the posts to people who already follow you, because those are people they already know who I am. They followed me they liked my work. It's just and the thing is when I made that I've only done one ad so far, and it worked out so well. Like, I went from 21,000 to 33,000. Free Yeah, plus got a few 100 paid with one ad. And it was you know, it was the important announcement. But I'm, I realized that, you know, when I was selling my book, I had to hit people, again and again and again to convince them to buy and I know that I'm gonna have to hit people again and again to convince them to subscribe. And a lot of people it's like, oh, well, I don't want to use give you my email. It's like it's so much spam or whatever. There's also an app so you know, you could use that. But the thing is that, that I was, I was told years ago in a I was actually at a fitness conference and this guy was a fitness marketing expert, saying that, you know, Facebook is you, you can't trust social media, you need to build an email list. Yep. And I shrugged it off, because it was so expensive. The numbers for MailChimp were stupid, and I wasn't making a lot of money back then, I thought MailChimp was a rip off. And I didn't have a product to sell. I was living off of freelancing. And my books were traditionally published. So I didn't have a lot of motivation to do that either. Then you get something like substack comes along, which I think is totally changed the landscape for people in two different ways. I think that, you know, you don't necessarily need, like, I used to have my own blog on a WordPress website. Yeah. And it was a pain in the ass. The user interface sucks it, you know, you have to pay a lot for hosting, you have to worry about hacking and crashes and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, I if I had a blog post that was really popular, it would, the website would crash. And it was just, it was such a pain in the ass. And then you've also got, if you want to email people, MailChimp, and others were so expensive. It's like, How the fuck do you justify this cost? I don't remember what it was. But I was like, No, I can't afford that. That's bullshit. Yeah, and now we've got substack, where everything's free. It is both a blog and an E newsletter at the same time. Yeah, and it doesn't cost a damn thing. And you don't have to worry about you know, it's always they've got their own IT people to make sure it's always running, it's always up, you own your content, you own your email list, you can download it at any time. They make their money because they want you to go paid. And if you start having paid subscriptions, which I do, and I make quite a bit of money from they take a sizable chunk, I think they end up taking about 18%. So they have a lot of very big names with huge followings making a ton of money, and they get their taste. So that's how it works. It's kind of a win win. Yeah, it's win win. And it's easy. It's the you know, the UI is, you know, I treat computers like a glorified typewriter. So for me just to be able to, you know, copy and paste directly over from Word, maybe throw some photos in or whatever. It it works. Well, yeah, me, and, and so I just want to continually, you know, every few weeks, I'll come up with a new type of enticement campaign to get more and more people from Facebook, to subscribe. And, you know, I've set a goal by the end of the year to have 100,000 free subscribers. And, and that will more than make up for the fact that Facebook has killed my reach. Yeah. And I also, you know, substack is just, it doesn't have that addictive engagement factor. Like with Facebook, you're always trying to game the algorithm get more engagement, more engagement, whereas with substack it's just so much more straightforward. You know, you might want to you will engage in some of the comments and stuff like that and reply to questions and, and, you know, people want to hear from you. But it's the degree is so much less. And with a place like substack, or Patreon or whatever. You're not expected to constantly be at everyone's beck and call. Yeah, people are going there to read you not necessarily to have you be beholden to them. Like there was social media trend overall, I think social media is kind of dying. I think people are getting sick of it. I agree. It's had its had its day. And, and I think a big part of that is that it sucks now. You look at your Facebook feed, and you're getting the reason why Facebook killed our reach was to drive. advertising revenue. Yeah. And it worked. They killed our reach. And then a bunch of companies with deep marketing pockets started paying. So a lot of the stuff that you're seeing in your feed now is shit from some content farm that that paid for you to see it and you're not seeing what you what you liked and followed. You're not seeing what you engage with. You're, you're seeing some of it, but a lot of it is crap. So people people don't care about that anymore. There's an author, science fiction author, Cory Doctorow came up with the term in shit ification of social media. Yeah. And he wrote up excellent post that was in Wired Magazine magazine a year ago that described all of this he talked about tick tock and he went into detail about tick tock in Facebook and Twitter, about how it's it's not fun anymore. It's not giving us what we want anymore. And it's killing itself. Because people are just tuning out. It's like, you know what? Facebook used to be great. And it's just not now. So why would I? Why would I want to spend time there when it just sucks? Yep. And, and it was they had to do it for financial reasons, I guess. But I think they're all dying because it's become, you know, toxic from a from a well spreading fascism point of view. But it's also it's also just not, you know, we're seeing these shitty content farm paid posts now, instead of what we've chosen to see. And yeah, I okay, I'm okay with the death of social media. Yeah,
46:04
I'm, I'm wasting a lot of that. And now, even I hate to bring it up. But since we're talking about it now, sub stocks, not without its own controversies these days, and I don't know if you're hearing any of that. From your
46:21
I have not addressed that personally. Since you asked, I will address it. And I have two things to say about that. One, is that one of the reasons why I haven't publicly written about it, I probably will at some point, but is because other people already have addressed it very well. And they're, you know, there's two ways to go that that yes, they are platforming Nazis, and, and there are Nazis that are making money off of substack. There via their paid subscriptions. And, and I mean, without getting into all the details, I understand why they're doing it. But the big one is that content moderation is both very expensive, it has no ROI. And, and it can lead to a slippery slope, because it's never good enough. If you if you start deep platforming certain people, then it's like, well, what about this one? What about this one? The slippery slope argument is not a great one. But it's still it's, it's a reality. That's part of the overall argument of why I can understand why they don't want to do it. But the other thing is that, you know, I'm seeing people that are saying that okay, Nazis will invade every single space. And if the people who are anti Nazi leave, then they will drive us out of everywhere. So So you know, we have to not allow ourselves to be driven out of this space, or it will become nothing but Nazis, which again, I mean, there's there's some holes in that argument, but but that's the one that I'm choosing to side with. I also understand if someone says, Well, substack is platforming Nazis. So fuck this place, I'm out of here. I respect that decision, I admire you for doing it. So that's the one thing that that I would say about it. The other thing is that you cannot trust a single thing that I have to say about whether or not you should stay on substack. And the reason is motivated reasoning, motivated reasoning coming out the ass, because I make a lot of money off of substack. And if I left, if I decided to go somewhere else, I can't take all of those paid subscribers with me, I have to convince every single one of them. Yeah, subscribe. And I've been there with the move from Patreon to substack when I went from Patreon to substack, only, like 30% react, because that's just you know, it's the inertia thing. So if I make the the, you know, high moral standards decision to move to another platform, my income is going to take a massive hit. And I'm seeing that a lot of people that are moving that are taking their big subscription basis. They a lot of them are free. They have free newsletters, they're not they don't have paid subscribers or they do they don't have a lot or maybe they just don't need the money. But you know, there's it would be a massive financial hit for me to do it. And so therefore I am I am financially motivated to believe those that say we should stay in fight. Right. And so as a result, yes, I acknowledge that I'm financially motivated and there For I have a bias to believe those that say no don't leave and so that that's why I can't even trust what I say myself because I know that there's a significant financial reward but you know you look at okay Dan rather's still there, and Dan rather's a good guy. Yeah. Heather Cox Richardson has a massive following. And I'm sure it makes a lot of money. Robert Reich is still there. I, I follow all of them. They're not leaving. And so I say, Well, fine. You know, if it's good enough for them to stay in and talk about how much Nazis suck, then then I can do it too. Yeah. And
50:40
I think that great name for the article when you do right, it should be called nothing but Nazis. Which sounds like a Toys R Us for like racists or something. So let's, I want to take a step back for a minute and talk a little bit about your, your use of Ritalin without diagnosis in college, not as obviously, as a party drug or anything like that. Yeah, but it's not a party. You're, you're we're trying to kind of get through things. But I, this is a topic that's come up before where I've learned that like, a lot of a lot of college kids actually get their hands on some sort of stimulants, as a way to help, you know, study for exams and so forth. But it's interesting, because it affects different people different length, and obviously those with ADHD. There, you know, you're like, suddenly, oh, well, hold on. Like, this might actually help me. Yeah.
51:40
Lesson it without being awake. It wasn't a stay awake drug. Right. It wasn't a cram all night drug. It was a translation device. Because so it was my first semester of MBA. And there's a lot of mandatory classes that I had to take that I just my brain could not be wrapped around operations, management and accounting. Were the two that I just I couldn't decipher it. It was like reading fucking cling on. Right? It just it made no sense to me whatsoever. What about Krebs cycle? Well, that kid that came later? Yeah. So that was i Without going into detail how I got my hands on some Ritalin. And I would take it and yeah, it wasn't like, Okay, this is it's 3am. And I need to keep studying this was the middle of the day I was well rested. It's just I needed to take this so I could understand it. So I could decipher it. And it was like, I took it. And then 30 minutes later, it's all of a sudden, I was like, wow, this is actually sinking in, I actually I actually get this. And it was the most bizarre sensation. Yeah, to just feel my brain change from one minute to the next to when it's like all of a sudden, the words on the page and the numbers on the page started to make sense. And it was, it was bizarre, but I didn't. I didn't have any idea at the time that I was ADHD like, I should have clued in that should have been a clue. But I just I was oblivious. It didn't it didn't make any sense to me. And I think it's because I didn't understand what ADHD was sure. I didn't know what it what it was or how it could manifest. Well, you probably
53:29
also, I mean, you probably also assume that the your you know, your your peers and other students or friends who are also taking Ritalin, you were probably assuming they had the same effect. I mean, it has, if you're neurotypical, it's going to affect you differently than if you're neurodiverse we're certainly with ADHD. So, you know, results may vary, I guess.
53:54
Yeah. So it's, it was bizarre the way it works. So it got me through my first semester and my second semester, I didn't have classes that were nearly so difficult. And then in my second year, I got to basically choose what I was doing. And I didn't take it again, I did it again. And, and then years later, many years later, like a decade later, I decided that okay, I want to be a fitness writer. And in order to do that, I should have some type of certification. So I went and got the most respected, most difficult certification there was the Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist, which is basically a gigantic textbook that I had to memorize. And there was a lot of stuff that that was easy for me because it was you know, stuff about nutrition and and exercise and and technique and, and motivation. then all this stuff was I was interested in it was easy to understand. I didn't have a problem with it. But once we started getting down to you know, more cellular level Krebs Cycle bullshit. Again, it was like, I don't get it, like I just can't, no matter how many times I read it, it doesn't sink in. And so again, sourced myself some some Ritalin and, again, translated cling on into English and, and pass the test. So that was, but then it was again, that was like, 2008 2000. Yeah, I think it was 2008. And, and then didn't take it again for years and years until it felt like I was flying apart in the seams a couple of years ago, with anxiety and because I'd become obsessed over my work,
55:56
it's really interesting with the anxiety as a comorbidity for ADHD, because yeah, I didn't know this either. And, in fact, my, this year, so since being diagnosed last year, you know, I met with my doctor, I was dying, I was diagnosed and prescribe some stimulants. And, you know, results may vary with that, too. So like I, you know, we were trying different things at different doses for different periods of time, wasn't really seeing the results I wanted to see. So I started seeing a psychologist with an expertise expertise in ADHD. And so she changed my meds and the dose. And we started along a better path. But because of anxiety with my own kind of work, and things like that, we paused everything, and started she started treating me for my anxiety. And then she reintroduced the stimulants, once we got the meds, right for the anxiety. And so now we're like, at this part, at this point here, we're like experimenting with the dose of the stimulants, but the meds for the anxiety have definitely been been helping me. So plus therapy as well. So that's, you know, that's an interesting thing, because like Dr. Russell Barkley did a who's kind of a wonderful resource and expert in the space. You know, he he reviewed like multiple studies and found that the average person with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD can have a 13 year less life expectancy than somebody with treated who's getting treatment. So it could be up to 13 years less, it's important to see your doctor and, and, you know, get diagnosed and treated.
57:54
I think that I mean, there's probably a lot of reasons for that. And I think addiction to 100%. And I mean, I've had, you know, struggles with Wow, it's a struggle. But yeah, I definitely had to be careful with my alcohol intake. And, and the also with food, that the thing about the only thing that really helps me control, my appetite is running, I have to run a lot in order to just preset those reward pathways in my brain so that they're not craving booze and junk food. Yeah. And that's the only way that I ever been able to keep my, my weight under control. Yeah,
58:47
you're getting the dopamine. Yeah,
58:49
so it's, it's, I'm pretty good at it self reflection. And, you know, realizing that the, I've taught myself a lot of tricks on how to how to, you know, deal with this and, and, but, but still, the, the medication was the big one for helping me not obsess over work, because it's still a bit of an issue. Like, for example, you know, this new book came out early October, and I wanted it to be a big success. So of course, I spent a few months promoting the shit out of it. And, and so that was, you know, there was some work obsession going on there. And then now I've got this transition to trying to get as many people over to substack. And seeing the part of the issue is that one ad campaign worked really well. So of course, it's like, got to do more. Right, right. Yeah. So I have to be careful that I don't get sucked down that rabbit hole again. But the The one nice thing is okay, I'm 55 years old, and and like I said, I could stop working now. And I'd be fine. I'd never have to work again, financially speaking. And I keep, also I had, I had to have a, I had a major health scare last September and had to have surgery and had to work through that with the book launch, which was a drag. And I'm still recovering, it's still getting back to, it was shitty, I'd finally gotten back to running. And I ran a half marathon. And then right after the half marathon, I had this nothing to do with the race. Like, I had a really good time, I was like, Yeah, I'm back, I'm back to running, and I'm losing this COVID weight, and everything is great. And then all of a sudden, I had this major health issue and needed to get surgery and all that kind of shit. And so that totally derailed that. But now I'm slowly crawling back to, to my fitness again. And, and the the health issue is kind of given me a new perspective, as well, where it's like, you know, I'm here for may not be here for a long time. It's not, oh, no, it's not cancer, it's the surgery solved the problem. But it just, it makes you not, not quite so certain about what comes next. And the last thing I want to do is die with a whole bunch of money in the bank that I never got a chance to spend. So I, it has helped me in terms of, of just relax a little bit more, and, you know, focus on my fitness and my health, and having fun and, and, and doing some more traveling and things like that. And the thing is that, you know, I can, I can still without obsessing and without having to work too hard, still make a lot of money. And, and so there's the difference between making a lot and making a ridiculous amount. And the making the ridiculous amount is going to drive me crazy. And And whereas, so it's like, I've had to convince myself that it's okay, to only make a lot.
1:02:16
And that's not a bad problem to have. Yeah,
1:02:18
so it's, and the funny thing is that, you know, I've told some people as I went into writing to get rich, which is the stupidest thing that that you will ever hear. Because it is not a career that is conducive to making a lot of money, right. But I had delusions of grandeur. And the thing is that I knew that if I was ever going to make a lot of money, that writing was going to be it. And the reason why is the whole product versus service type of income that you can generate that I knew that if I could create a product that people wanted the sky was the limit. You know, my first book didn't sell that great, I made, I don't know, maybe $3 an hour. And my second book, I made maybe $8 an hour. And I don't know what it is on the latest book, but it's it's a hell of a lot more than that. And I didn't run the numbers, but it's if you have a product that takes off, it doesn't require any additional work except for you know, some of the promotion. But you can make more and more money off of it. And I felt that I had what it took that if I kept experimenting and trying that eventually something would hit it only took 12 years and a very well paid supportive spouse. Yes, but eventually, I found the niche that took off from you. And now it's not just books but also substack like memory month I get a good income from my paid subscribers. And if my paid subscribers triple, I don't need to do three times as much work yeah, I need to do the exact same amount of writing to satisfy those paid subscribers. And the only real work is like you know their promotion to get more and more but that's not a lot that's just you know, your your sales and promotion shit to to get more and more but there's no additional you know, the the stuff that I write for my paid subscribers is still a product that where the sky is the limit that you know I could make. I could have way more paid subscribers and make way more money but I don't need it doesn't mean I need to write more content for them. And so that was why I went into it but now it's like okay, well we'll just you know, how how much is it enough and I've kind of figured out that I can I can not stress too much and not work too hard. And make you know a very good ongoing income that will finance you know, nice vacations and help our kids buy houses and that kind of stuff and, and I can live my life and and write what I want to write instead of writing what I think is going to sell.
1:05:18
Yeah. Which is really important for for renters. Absolutely. James, this has been awesome. Are there any questions? Anything I didn't ask that you would like to share? No,
1:05:28
I think I've rambled a lot and true ADHD fashion. We covered it all. And then some. Yeah,
1:05:35
no, this has been this has been really great. And I wish you all the all the best moving forward, it sounds. And I'll make sure that, you know, to include links to everything we talked about today so that folks can can find you and connect with you. Where can they? Where is the best place for folks to check you out? subscribe and learn more about Mr. James fell.
1:05:55
I mean, the easiest thing to I mean, you could just Google my name James fell and you'll find it all. But James fell.com is my website. And there's links to buy my book there. If you click on blog from James fell.com. It takes you to my substack which is James fell.substack.com. Cool. Well,
1:06:14
thanks a million man. This has been great. Oh, thanks
1:06:16
so much, Dave. I really appreciate you having me on the show.
