PODCAST. Time, Trauma, and Treatment for ADHD with Simon Weissenberger, Ph.D.
Inside the ADHD Mind: Time, Trauma, and the Future of Personalized Treatment with Researcher Simon Weissenberger.
In our most recent episode of ADHD Wise Squirrels, we spoke with psychologist and researcher Simon Weissenberger, who has spent the last decade exploring the complexities of adult ADHD, particularly in the Czech Republic, where he lives and works. Our conversation spanned across continents, disciplines, and decades, encompassing personal and professional insights about ADHD.
The Struggle to Diagnose Adult ADHD in Europe
We began by discussing how ADHD is (or isnโt) being recognized in adults, particularly in Central Europe. In the Czech Republic, Simon explained, services for children with ADHD have improved, but adult diagnosis remains underdeveloped. Some adults are misdiagnosed with anxiety or depression or shuffled between fragmented services that only address part of the picture. Often, medication is prescribed without therapy, or therapy is prescribed without medication.
That imbalance, Simon argues, creates an incomplete treatment plan. Whatโs needed is a more holistic, individualized approach.
Can AI Predict Your Ideal ADHD Treatment?
One of the most exciting aspects of our conversation was Simonโs work in personalized medicine, which utilizes AI to simulate the most effective treatments for a specific individual. By analyzing genomic, lifestyle, and environmental data, researchers can start modeling whether someone might respond better to short-acting vs. long-acting stimulants, or whether dietary changes and exercise could be more effective than medications alone.
We imagined a near future where medical professionals could plug in a patientโs health data into an app, and it would suggest the right treatment path based on thousands of similar profiles. No more guesswork. No more painful trial-and-error.
Why Exercise, Diet, and Routine Still Matter
While personalized medicine holds promise, Simon emphasized that lifestyle factors still play a powerful role in managing ADHD symptoms. His research in the Czech Republic found a clear correlation between physical activity, a healthy diet, and reduced ADHD symptoms, although he cautioned that correlation does not imply causation.
We talked about digital hygiene, too, about how smartphones and social media can hijack dopamine systems that are already vulnerable in ADHD brains. Simon noted that younger generations are increasingly aware of this but still struggle to unplug.
Time Blindness: Living Outside the Clock
One of Simonโs key research areas is time blindness, a concept originally coined by ADHD expert Dr. Russell Barkley. People with ADHD often struggle with time perception, not just planning or punctuality, but a deeper, neurological disconnection from time itself. Tasks feel urgent or irrelevant, now or never. Past mistakes linger. Future rewards feel distant and abstract.
Simonโs studies reveal consistent deficits in time estimation, discrimination, and tracking. He referenced his colleague Mark Wittmannโs concept of embodied time, suggesting that how we experience time is tied to how we experience being alive.
Trauma, Genetics, and the Emotional Core of ADHD
We also explored the emotional side of ADHD, particularly how past trauma and present emotional dysregulation often go hand-in-hand with the diagnosis.
While we know ADHD is not caused by trauma, trauma can amplify or mimic its symptoms. Simon mentioned ongoing research into intergenerational trauma, as well as environmental factors like pollution and prenatal exposures that might influence ADHD risk.
We also discussed relationships, how rejection sensitivity, frustration, and even anger can destabilize partnerships where one person is neurodivergent. Therapy can help, but only if both partners understand the ADHD lens.
What About Cannabis and CBD?
We also touched on the complicated role of cannabis. While THC is not recommended for core ADHD symptoms, Simon noted that some individuals report emotional relief. CBD, with its anti-inflammatory properties, is promising, but therapeutic doses are often far higher than whatโs found in commercial products.
Nicotine, strangely, showed some cognitive benefit in ADHD-related research, but Simon strongly discouraged its use due to addiction risks.
The Big Takeaway
If thereโs one theme that runs through this conversation, itโs this: ADHD is incredibly complex, and no one-size-fits-all solution will do. Whether itโs understanding your time perspective, addressing emotional patterns in relationships, or building a personalized treatment plan, ADHD demands an approach thatโs as unique as the people it affects.
Simon Weissenberger brings that nuance, curiosity, and global awareness to the table.
Listen to the full episode to hear us discuss:
AI and the future of ADHD diagnosis
How to build better time management systems for ADHD
The real role of trauma in ADHD
The surprising science behind cannabis, CBD, and nicotine
What โembodied timeโ might mean for neurodivergent minds
Tune in now on your favorite podcast platform or at wisesquirrels.com, and be sure to check out Simonโs important ADHD research on Research Gate.
Wise Squirrels is the podcast for late-diagnosed adults with ADHD (and the people who love them). Hosted by Dave Delaney.
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hi, I'm Simon Weissenberger and uh I'm a researcher and a psychologist. I have been focusing on ADHD since about 2015. Um once I finished uh my my master's degree, I started I I got a PhD and my main focus of that was ADHD and primarily adult ADHD.โจ โจ
00:01:54
โจSimon Weissenberger: And since I'm based in the Czech Republic, we um we were looking at uh lifestyle hab you know habits and things that people do. And I wanted to say that one of the main reasons for that study was also because uh as you know adult ADHD has been added to the DSM5 since uh 2013 and in the Czech Republic there was um there was a bit of a delayed response with that and a lot of people were struggling. So our goal was also to raise awareness of this topicโจDave Delaney: That'sโจSimon Weissenberger: andโจDave Delaney: fantastic. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: yeahโจDave Delaney: Go on. Yeah. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: and then uh going on I mean we um a you know series of events led me to meet the late uh Phils Embardo who's famous for the Stamford prison study and a bunch of other social psychology stuff on conformity and um things of that sort and uh his his research on time and time perspective was something we talked about and uh we collaborated on some stuff some uh research that led to more uh studies uh looking at time perception and time perspectives and ADHD.โจ โจ
00:03:19
โจDave Delaney: That'sโจSimon Weissenberger: SoโจDave Delaney: fas. Yeah. And you've done a lot of wonderful research. Um I first learned about you from uh Dr. Russ RamseyโจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: uh who was aโจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: guest on this on this podcast as well. And just to be clear, I'm not a doctor, nor do I pretend I am uh online.โจSimon Weissenberger: No, that'sโจDave Delaney: Uh there's plenty of that uh out there already. Um you know, for me personally, I was diagnosed just a couple years ago with ADHD, uh you know, now in my 50s and decided to start a podcast and and here we are. So I really I started it as a way to kind of learn myself about ADHD, but then also, you know, as I learned more to remove stigmas and to, you know, inspire and educate people. And then you know in addition to that also having learned from uh uh Russell Barkley about life expectancy uh for undiagnosed and untreated ADHDers you know that can be up to 13 years less.โจ โจ
00:04:18
โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: And uh when I learned about that that my little passion project here became a mission and uh here we are today. So yeahโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: I'm thrilled to have you here. Um are you from Prague originally?โจSimon Weissenberger: No. Uh well my my background I'm actually half Italian, half American, but I'veโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: been traveling since I was born basically because I'm an AR US military brat andโจDave Delaney: Ah.โจSimon Weissenberger: so I've been around and I uh ended up in Prague because I I did a basically a study abroad with Lasal UniversityโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: and at the end of the program uh one of our guest pro guest lecturers professors from Charles University uh basically invited me to do my uh doctoral studies hereโจDave Delaney: Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: and I decide well I it's a long story but I uh met my ex at the time and uh I stuck around and have kids here so um and you know it's a beautiful country, beautiful place so I'm I'm sticking around here um and yeahโจ โจ
00:05:23
โจDave Delaney: it'sโจSimon Weissenberger: butโจDave Delaney: great. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: yeah it's a cool spot. I mean I I recommend it to people to come visit uhโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: especially in these months uh for you know just commenting on what you said I I think it's really important uh that you you know what you're doing with uh raising awareness of this topic because I mean I think in the US it's now a little bit better uh than it is than it was here but uh here many people with uh ADHD especially adults uh really struggled to get proper care. And so um there's many horror stories of adults you know seeking uh treatment and they are not able to and very often they are uh misdiagnosed or they're given you know they're given SSRIs and at best you know they get some kind of uh psychotherapy but uh yeah it's getting better though I I have to say.โจDave Delaney: That's good. At least Yeah. IโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: mean, I think Yeah. And and you know, when I when I reached out to you, I I I think I mentioned my wife and I lived in Prague uh for several months backโจ โจ
00:06:35
โจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: in uh probably 99, I think 1999.โจSimon Weissenberger: Oh, wow.โจDave Delaney: And we had we were we were backpackers. We had met in Ireland. I'm from Canada, from Toronto, and she's from Tennessee. And we met um uh in Galway, Ireland. lived in Ireland for several years and in the Czech Rep or in uh Scotland and Edinburgh for about a year in London for a while but then we were backpacking across Europe and we ended up in Prague where we ran out of money and so we lived in a we lived in a backpacker's hostel which was like the woman that ran it was like the sweetest woman in the world umโจSimon Weissenberger: Oh, well.โจDave Delaney: over at Bodia Vista uh I believe was the name of the tube stop metro stop inโจSimon Weissenberger: Oh,โจDave Delaney: PragueโจSimon Weissenberger: yeah.โจDave Delaney: and yeah so we lived there and then we we would go we would work at the hostel at night uh earning enough or not being paid but for room and board. We would work by cleaning the hostel and like checking in late arrivals.โจ โจ
00:07:27
โจDave Delaney: And then and then during the the day we would both separate and go out across the city to teach English to uh you know ESL students,โจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: mainly adults uh learning learning English. Um and uh yeah, we had a great time, but man, I've I've never been more broke. We we saved up enough money. Prague was sort of famously like this really super inexpensive place certainly before the euro and stuff. Um and so we lived in Prague and yeah the only words I remember are like pivo for beer, nostravi for cheers and proim for please. And I think that'sโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: maybe it but I loved I love Prague and like you said like I highly yeah recommend people people check it out. I've heard um I've heard from people uh in Europe now obviously the US has its own problems u major problems these days with uh I won't get political here but uh yeah the the it circus has entered town um but as far as uh as far as in Europe you know my understanding you know when I talk to people in the UK especially you know the NHS I mean people are adults are waiting literally years for a diagnosis and and then hopefully treatment.โจ โจ
00:08:45
โจDave Delaney: Um, are you finding that in in the Czech Republic as well?โจSimon Weissenberger: Uh well, here it's a little bit different. I think with um you know, especially I'm just talking about adults because with children it's it's already much better.โจDave Delaney: Sure.โจSimon Weissenberger: Uh but here there's um no there's there's a few uh private, you know, there's private uh practices that aren't super expensive like they would be in the US. uh that that you don't have to wait too long for. Uh there's the the problem is there aren't so many people that are uh experts in ADHD.โจDave Delaney: Uh,โจSimon Weissenberger: SoโจDave Delaney: okay.โจSimon Weissenberger: where people you know where what I see with adults is that they they are either successful in being uh prescribed their medication and then they have a hard time finding some you know some therapist or coach uh or the other way around. They have a good therapist but then they have trouble uh getting medication and they struggle. And it's it's unfortunate because it's really, you know, it really makes a a difference.โจ โจ
00:09:52
โจSimon Weissenberger: And I um I saw you you you mentioned the politics a little bit and I wanted to just say uh one thing that I thought about and I saw some of your posts and it ties to a presentation I just did a couple weeks ago at the University of Triair. Um but one of the things that uh without getting too political but one of the things that the uh Maha people are pushing now or besides the anti-medation stuff which I think is quite goofy uh but their emphasis on diets and mitochondria and uh what is the other thing they're talking oh yeah seed oils. not I you know I'm not a dietician so I'm not going to comment that too much but um I think that if they you know if there was a a sane type of approach that that we could get somewhere because you know some of the research that I'm doing and my colleagues are doing now is very um you know AI based and incilico very biological and what we're looking at is also things like uh supplementation uh antioxidants but we are not saying you know we're not looking at this as okay don't you know don't take your medication just take this instead no quite the opposite if uh from the models incilico models which to be you know to to make it simple for the the lay person it just means where we have let's say someone's uh genome and you have your genome.โจ โจ
00:11:35
โจSimon Weissenberger: I have, you know, my genomic sequence that's fed into um that's fed into this computer, let's say, or program. And we insert as much data in there as possible. So, the you know, the the the the software has all information about what we eat, uh how much we you know, what's our daily life like, what are the med medications we take, what are conditions that can be seen. And basically what we can say okay let's add you know let's put in uh medication X and uh you know this antioxidant or you know cut down on this junk food and basically you know what we see are at least in modeling and of course this is theoretical but it's quite commonly used now especially in um new you know new drug research uh great outcomes. SoโจDave Delaney: Huh?โจSimon Weissenberger: yeah, so what I'm saying is, you know, I I try to find um I try to find a a middle ground uh with things like that. And uh it's it's uh there's always, you know, some something to something true or useful.โจ โจ
00:12:48
โจSimon Weissenberger: It's just when you go too, you know, too much on the extremes, then you you miss out the bigger picture.โจDave Delaney: Yeah. And what you're saying is like I I agree. I think uh you know well with the with AI and things too because I I yeah I'm kind of a nerd that way but I it's almost and correct me where I'm wrong but it's almost sounding like you're you're creating like a like a digital simulation almost like like a like a digital war game where you're like putting in like different uh and not a scientist but you know like different stimulants different whatever like different uh yeah I'm totally butchering analogy.โจSimon Weissenberger: nutrients.โจDave Delaney: I shouldn't have just But you're you're kind of seeing how they battle it out or if they get together or if they you know if they're like combating against each other or or working together in a sense. Does that make any sense at all?โจSimon Weissenberger: Um I mean partโจDave Delaney: KindโจSimon Weissenberger: partlyโจDave Delaney: ofโจSimon Weissenberger: it does if you yeah you can have some things that uh work don't work well together but it'sโจ โจ
00:13:48
โจDave Delaney: right.โจSimon Weissenberger: more the concept is more uh personalized type of medicine. So I can umโจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: I'm seeing more and more of this uh this approach uh like a colleague of mine in Switzerland is doing stuff with you know research on ADHD and and it's not just research it's actually like clinical uh it's a it's a clinical setting where you know patients are getting treatment they're but they're also re looking at uh the in the same way I said you know you you can insert uh my data genomic genomic data, epigenetic data, your data and we could see that for example uh maybe I do better with um if you know concerta and youโจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: do better with u viveance uh forโจDave Delaney: Right.โจSimon Weissenberger: just for medications um in this in this other realm and and also we can see um to broaden it and to make it more understandable uh we want to see okay if you're eating uh you know, junk food uh forโจDave Delaney: right?โจSimon Weissenberger: you know, every meal, that's going to raise inflammation.โจ โจ
00:15:00
โจSimon Weissenberger: That's probably going to make your symptoms worse. So that's, you know, that's one of the things that uh I'm interested in is to how to make the most uh effective treatments for ADHD that are holistic in the sense that they take in all parts of of the lifestyle, you know, and I I saw for instance you you do uh you were putting you're posting some stuff about Tai Chi and like body awarenessโจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: and that's Yeah, that's a good example. temple. Um, and just to jump back for a second with my colleague, uh, basically what they're doing in this hospital in in Switzerland is they have, um, they have people, you know, people with ADHD, I think it's I think it's both kids and adults that are there. And before they, uh, prescribe their their medication, what they will do is they will do um, you know, brain, you know, the fMRI um, studies. TheyโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: will look at brain scans and do a before, you know, be a clean and dirty quote unquote.โจ โจ
00:16:12
โจSimon Weissenberger: SoโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: without the drug and with the drug and see which formulation works best for each individualโจDave Delaney: Oh, that'sโจSimon Weissenberger: because asโจDave Delaney: amazing.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: No,โจSimon Weissenberger: SoโจDave Delaney: that's amazing because youโจSimon Weissenberger: yeah.โจDave Delaney: you're what I'm imagining is what I'm imagining is let's say in the future there is an because I hear from other late diagnosed adults, wise squirrels as I like to call us. Um, you know, I hear from people who say, "Oh yeah, I tried Viveance. Viveance was the one or whatever itโจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: was and it had weird side effects. it didn't feel right. So, I just didn't I didn't continue it. And thatโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: was it. That was the end of their medication journeyโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: because they thought that stimulants, you know, or the dose was too low or too high or whatever. And my own experience is I've had to experiment with my doctor on different medications, different stimulants with different doses in order to find what's right.โจ โจ
00:17:06
โจDave Delaney: But not everybody has the time or the money or the patience or the insurance to to help them through that journey. So I can almost imagine what you're creating almost like a sim a simulator like an app basically that you tell the app like a diet app that you tell the app yes I smoke or yes I drink and I eat junk or whatever it is plus you know this that and the next thing butโจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: it would then tell them based on that information that this medication would probably be the best bet. So that way the if if or or maybe this would be used by the the doctor, right? So that they can prescribe the the best fitting solution so that the the patient then receives the best solution the first time and they don't have to go back and forth or give up which is worse.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah, exactly. So wi with this AI type personalized medicine approachโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: ideally we can see uh you know it's always if you have enough data on on each individualโจ โจ
00:18:08
โจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: uh you can see uh and you know and and it gets into you know we can get into almost science fiction territory when when we get you know when we see people with their wearables and all that stuff that I mean I don't know how you feel about that. I personally don't use that so much but uh you know if you have that information you can see uh you can pretty much see what okay what dietary choices are good for you what kind of exercise is is good for you what kind of you know medications are the best so it's it gets into uh fascinating territory and justโจDave Delaney: there.โจSimon Weissenberger: to keep it practical from what you what you just said yeah what what uh what my colleague colleague was was telling me is that you can really see, you know, what some types of brains, you know, some some people uh with ADHD really do better with uh a short acting drug like um like rolin or aderall.โจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: uh whereas others uh tend to do better with uh a longerlasting and uh yeah and some people get uh you know uh side effects which can be like the the dosage needs to be um needs to be um regulated or lowered in some cases.โจ โจ
00:19:28
โจSimon Weissenberger: Sometimes it needs to be raised and but this is you know this is the pharmarmacological part and uh a lot of you know a lot of the people or one of the fads or things that are people are focusing in more at least from what I see in the US is this emphasis on uh natural foods and and um you know that can be good if you're if you're able to you know stay you know lower inflammation uh which is you know chronic and we see uh we see more and more diseases uh and and uh disabilities that are you know at least worsened by chronic inflammation.โจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: So yeah,โจDave Delaney: AndโจSimon Weissenberger: IโจDave Delaney: thereโจSimon Weissenberger: IโจDave Delaney: is Oh, sorry.โจSimon Weissenberger: No, go ahead.โจDave Delaney: No, I was just going to say and there's sort of a there is a tie in with like I've learned that with ADHD like exercise like it's kind of piggybacking on what you're saying, right? like exercising, healthy eating, healthy living is essential really for everybody if you want toโจ โจ
00:20:37
โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: have a long happy life regardless of your neurotype. But with ADHD,โจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: um, exercise is especially helpfulโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: and right and diet of course, but but exercise is especially helpful because you receive dopamine from success like you know when I go out on a hike every not every most mornings um I start the day off on the right foot and I've had time to clear my head and think about my day or think about my week and plus I you know all the all the reasons why that anybody would would know why you know walking briskly or running is is healthy, right? Um, and that gets into like your because you've got a mantra or you believe in in like this whole self uh philosophy, right?โจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: Yeah. Which I've heard which is like be the best version of yourself and don't let your problems define you. Is that sort of theโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: the general idea there?โจSimon Weissenberger: That's that's something that I work with on a you know with therap with with clients and things and it is uh it is a yeah I guess you could you could call it a mantra.โจ โจ
00:21:39
โจSimon Weissenberger: Be the best you can be. It was the old army motoโจDave Delaney: Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: and I really like that. Um,โจDave Delaney: IโจSimon Weissenberger: yeah.โจDave Delaney: likeโจSimon Weissenberger: AndโจDave Delaney: that.โจSimon Weissenberger: I I mean, so I I was just uh I know we're jumping. This is an ADHD podcast. We're jumping a little. Uh, but uh yeah, I mean, so this is an area I just wanted to say this this area of personalized medicine is one area that I think you will see a lot more of with uh with ADHD. Now if we're talking about uh lifestyles and what I said as the start of my journey uh you mentioned exercise which of course you know it's good for everyone uh getting you know you know even just walking uh and as for ADHD uh there's the advantage you you know we can be more distractable but also like get uh stimulated by these things. Um, one thing that I talked about also with Russell was, uh, this ice, you know, this this fad of the cold exposure, uh, which has been around, you know, it's well, it's been around forever, but it became popular.โจ โจ
00:22:48
โจSimon Weissenberger: Um now in in research we know that people with ADHD have uh lower free flowing cortisol in their blood and saliva which is uh especially in the morning uh it's not it's it's not uh typical. So I if if you have cortisol that's a stress hormone and if you have less of it and it's not you know you have less of it than a neurotypical person you you will be less motivated um you need to have a little bit of stress and what was found in uh research was that you know you do your you start the morning and this is something I've been doing for a decade or so uh cold shower uh you know besides doing the breathing ing and and things of this sort. It actually raises cortisol. Uh and it can be quite helpful uh for for people with ADHDโจDave Delaney: Huh?โจSimon Weissenberger: and and you know and I find uh routine something that uh that can be good is to have a you know steady routine uh for like you know what time you wake up, what time you go to bed.โจ โจ
00:24:00
โจSimon Weissenberger: integrate men,โจDave Delaney: AreโจSimon Weissenberger: you know, have your rewards for um doing your exercise, uh finding things that are pleasurable and and healthy. Um but in terms of lifestyle, some of the things that uh we found and we our our original study on the Czech population was correlational. So we were looking at correlations between symptom intensity and um and lifestyle. So and habit let's say um somebody who is drinking uh I don't know a gallon of soda per day. How does that correlate with uh the ADHD symptoms intensity whether it's inattention, impulsivity or or things of that sort. And it means a lot of the things we found were basically similar to or or fit what was already known. Uh but we found that of course uh physical activity exercise is uh negatively correlated with high you know with extreme symptoms or strong symptoms. We found that uh for example uh certain you know be better dieting was connected or or correlated with lower symptoms and you always have to remember it's correlation does not always equal causation.โจ โจ
00:25:33
โจSimon Weissenberger: It's veryโจDave Delaney: Right.โจSimon Weissenberger: um so other things uh that were surprising well the the digital the digital hygiene let's say is uh was something important uhโจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: how yeah sorryโจDave Delaney: No. No. Yeah. I'm agree. Yeah. Digital hygiene.โจSimon Weissenberger: digital hygiene which is something that uh I mean more and more people need are are aware of especially younger kids you know there I've noticed cuz I each as well. And I noticed with my Gen Z, especially uh the younger ones, they are quite aware. It's like with ADHD, they're they're quite aware of uh you know, of the things that they need to do and but they struggle with it, especially when they're so you know, part of their uh reality is so ingrained with um smartphones, Tik Tok, and and all these things. and they're they're aware of the that you know they say well I need to I need to put my phone away or uh I need to uh you know take a break take a digital detox.โจ โจ
00:26:42
โจSimon Weissenberger: I've heard many uh many kids say that now and I I I have to say I was uh you know despite the stereotypes I see an improve some kind of improvement in the uh younger kids and I mean compared to like three years ago or four years ago I I see uh kids being a lot more aware of the issues uh at hand. So,โจDave Delaney: I think they are. I I I keep I keep telling my my kids are now 18 and 19 and I keep telling them and friends that at at some point in my lifetime or possibly my kids certainly and my grandkids at some point in the future our our lineage are going to or our future families are going to look at pictures of our families and say and see the pictures of of everybody on smartphones and and it will be the equivalent of cigarettes for usโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: for our generation like I can't believe you smoked near your baby right in the 70s. I have a feeling while smartphones have lots of great things, you know, there's no there's no denying the addiction uh the addictive nature of of both the design of the the technology.โจ โจ
00:27:54
โจDave Delaney: Um I'm I'mโจSimon Weissenberger: Heat.โจDave Delaney: addictive tech is something that's that's very top of mind and something that I'm very interested in exploring more of. Um, so it is reassuring to hear kids are but with ADHD though you tend to uh generalizing of course but with ADHD you know we tend to be more prone to addiction and so when the technology itself is designed to be addictiveโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah,โจDave Delaney: then your kids in in your example may say they need a digital detox but just as 25 some odd years ago when I kept or or even longer when I was trying to quit smoking I knew IโจSimon Weissenberger: youโจDave Delaney: had to quit smoking and I would even crush half a pack of cigarettes, crush them up and throw them away. That's it. I quit. And then I'd go to the store and buy a pack again.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: Um or I'd mooch one off someone on the street. So, you know, there is we we're prone to addiction already with ADHD.โจ โจ
00:28:50
โจDave Delaney: So, the where where addictive technology or any addictions come into play, uh you know, we're certainly more susceptible to that, right?โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah. And and you know, and that's one of the things that's a little bit controversial. I keep bringing up and people ask uh but one of the f since you talkโจDave Delaney: YouโจSimon Weissenberger: aboutโจDave Delaney: sound aโจSimon Weissenberger: smoke.โจDave Delaney: little muffled right now.โจSimon Weissenberger: Oh, is this better?โจDave Delaney: Yeah. Yeah, that's a little better.โจSimon Weissenberger: Okay. I don't hold on. Um yeah, so one of the one of the things that's uh that came up in our research and it's something that's been uh looked at which is controversial is um the connection between nicotine and improving symptoms of ADHD. And um when when people ask me and say, "Well, does that mean I should take nicotine or smoke?" Well, if you ask me if you should smoke, I would tell you absolutely not. Uh, if you're saying, should you start taking nicotine for ADHD, I would say absolutely not.โจ โจ
00:29:57
โจSimon Weissenberger: Um, if you are already uh a smoker, I would suggest to do some harm reduction and and switch to uh probably nicotine pouches and get a you know, not a too high dose, but it is addictive. So, it is controversial and I um yeah, I am I am aware of that. But it has been found to be neuroprotective. And if you can get it in your body without, you know, without causing too much damage, I mean, I I'm not particularly opposed to it.โจDave Delaney: IโจSimon Weissenberger: Um,โจDave Delaney: know it's funny you mentioned that because I know a couple people who are adults who are serial entrepreneurs. So like, you know, likely likely perhaps uh undiagnosed ADHDers, but let's assume just for sake of argument that they let's say let's assume they are they're undiagnosed ADHDers. They've been talking about nicotine and using similar sort of oils or patches or what have you and they said that it seems to be working for them. But if they were diagnosed with ADHD and they were treated for ADHD, would they even need the nicotine?โจ โจ
00:31:08
โจDave Delaney: Then if they're being if they're on stimulants and they're and they're in therapy and they're getting everything they need,โจSimon Weissenberger: Um, I mean, probably not. It's I can't answer that from and that's the risk because it is an addictive substance.โจDave Delaney: right?โจSimon Weissenberger: Um, so I can't answer. I just can tell you that in terms of symptoms and I'm trying to recall if uh if we had that look if we if we looked at medicated uh and you know medicated plus nicotine but no um I don't recall that but probably not uhโจDave Delaney: Okay.โจSimon Weissenberger: probably better to avoid it in that case. Um other you know another thing that you you mentioned uh substance or addictions um cannabis uh we we found of course the cannabis t and cannabis means you know it's it's it's there's like hundreds of canabonoids and so we look at for example THC rich cannabis is not advised for uh ADHD symptoms uh it seems to improve improve the emotional uh emotional issues somewhatโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: but uh it does not improve it actually makes the core symptoms much worse other canabonoids I mean I I'm not I think uh CBD is the generally benign and it has the anti-inflammatory properties uh I know I again I've read um I've read uh research uh that was animal animal studies that was basically looking at uh canabonoids outside of THC andโจ โจ
00:32:53
โจDave Delaney: H.โจSimon Weissenberger: they seem to be um you know benign and uh can be helpful. Um so I'm think that's that can be uh good. I don't know if you have experience if you were trying the CBD or things like that.โจDave Delaney: Um, I I quit drinking five years ago. Um, and so obviously no alcohol, but I've I've had CBD in a drink, like a low dose.โจSimon Weissenberger: H.โจDave Delaney: Um, and yeah, I mean, you know, I smoked pot back in the day and all and all that. So, and I mean, you know, like being from Toronto where it's now legal or legalizedโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: um in Canada, it's funny because I, you know, you smell weed everywhere you walk now. And I was telling I was talking to a friend of mine about it and we were kind of like complaining about it a little bit to each other, but then we were thinking, well, wait a minute, like, you know, how many ptheads are getting in fights after, you know, when they're when they're out on the street?โจ โจ
00:33:55
โจDave Delaney: I mean, it's the drunks who are, right? So, ifโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: everybody's on on weed or whatever, you know, it's not not the end of the world, I guess. But, um, so yeah, I mean, as far as like something that that relaxes you, I can see that the where where you're saying that and emotionally where it kind of helps you kind of relax perhaps. Um,โจSimon Weissenberger: Heat.โจDave Delaney: and kind of, you know, but but as far as like to your point, like as far as like something that's going to actually solve like great, I can relax, but the problem is I have to work today, you know? IโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: can't just chill out and watch Netflix all day. Um,โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: soโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah. ButโจDave Delaney: umโจSimon Weissenberger: you know what I'm saying is that the the thing with uh cannabis is it's very it's a very very complex uh plant because a lot of the compounds you know some are activating for example this the certain receptors the CB-1 receptors in the endockinabonoid system and it's very complex system but uh and the other for example THC activates it uh and basically makes people uh hunger, you know, it seeks like hunger, the sensation.โจ โจ
00:35:03
โจSimon Weissenberger: If it's over stimulated, can be like even, you know, psychotic like symptoms. Although it's more common in synthetic canabonoids, butโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: other canabonoids in the same plant have the opposite effect. So when you read certain studies, it's so difficult to do a proper study because you have to um unlike uh I don't know if you use a drug, I don't know, cocaine, it's oneโจDave Delaney: No.โจSimon Weissenberger: compound that you're looking at. WithโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: cannabis, you have 50 or 60 compounds that are all active. I mean, one one is the main psychoactive, but so you want to look individually. And CBD is non-csychoactive and it can have some uh benefits for uh for ADHD although more um research needs to be done on that and of course the dosage for CBD for um psych you know for conditions psych psychological conditions is much higher than what is usually uh found in uh commercial products. SoโจDave Delaney: Yeah. And when you when you if you're consuming it in like uh some sort of beverage, the beverage probably has artificial flavors.โจ โจ
00:36:19
โจDave Delaney: It probably has sugarsโจSimon Weissenberger: yeah.โจDave Delaney: and and god knows what else. So then you've got to combine, you know, the the pros and cons of consuming that in the first place because now you're going to give yourself a bunch of sugar and whatever else is in that can, especially in the States with artificial flavoring and all that crap. Um, let's let's shift topics for a sec because I'm I'm being mindful of the time and it's racing by because and I'm absolutely enjoying this. Do you have a hard stop at the top of the hour just to make sure?โจSimon Weissenberger: Um I mean I I promised I I will have a few more minutes uh after five but it's uh not so much time.โจDave Delaney: Okay. Okay. Just just let me know. But I IโจSimon Weissenberger: Okay.โจDave Delaney: do want to dig into the the speaking of timeโจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: um the topic of time time blindness. Um and um you've done a lot of work, a lot of studies around uh the idea of of time.โจ โจ
00:37:12
โจDave Delaney: Um, I have my own like theories and thoughts about it, but I would love for you to just share a little bit about what you've found in ADHDers as it pertains to to time and time management, time blindness.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah. So uh time time blindness is a concept that was brought on by barkley if I recall correctly and I mean it's a very uh useful concept because um we generally you know when people talk about perception and uh consciousness that time time perception is generally not the first thing that comes to mind but if you think about it it's actually the most important thing because we are you know we are beings we are basically embodied time. So if we are not if we have um a hard time to perceive time or to perceive time as most other people do uh we are going to uh we're going to be um you know we can have a a very different point of view which is not a bad thing but we can struggle and this is something that and not to get off the topic but this is something that I t I always say uh when people talk about, oh, ADHD, it shouldn't be uh, you know, you should just leave the kids alone or something.โจ โจ
00:38:42
โจSimon Weissenberger: But I say, you know, if we lived in in a huntergather society or if we lived in a different type of society where you don't have, you know, the strict um time requirements and you don't have everybody, you know, we you don't you have a more approximate view of time where you get up, you know, you say, okay, it's sunset, you have a natural view of time, then I can understand that point. But when you have schedules and you have to say you know you have to f be on a certain point at this hour do a certain task by this day then it's a different story. SoโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: just going back uh what what uh we looked at. So we did both um both a study that was a questionnaire uh based study which was using time perspectives and then we did a uh research that was followed up which was actually time perception and that that time blindness is closer to time perception. So time perception is when you are basically in in a research lab the way we measure it is we're we're asking you to uh for example give an estimation where you're you're doing a certain task.โจ โจ
00:39:59
โจSimon Weissenberger: I tell you to uh draw a circle or or do something and I then say okay what is uh how much time has gone by and that's a time estimation. uh there's a time discrimination where you can do like um similar you like compare to exercise and say which one was longer and then just basic approximations and one thing that was found repeatedly uh was that with ADHD there's time there's dysfunction on all those time tasks but the main one uh which is is really about that and to make it to put it in lay you know lay layman 's term is just to feel like uh time just flows by and you you don't you know you haven't done something just like the time uh blindness. So that that is important uh to understand and and and from that we are obviously with um when we look at ADHD coaching like you do uh there's the big factor is okay so how do we how do we get better uh at uh managing the time and and um well I mentioned something which I I think is very useful is to set up a routine with your therapist, with your coach to have um basically certain things that are showing you the time.โจ โจ
00:41:32
โจSimon Weissenberger: So if you like I have a clock right in front of me I can see uh the time I can say uh then you know chunking up tasks I can say okay from 4:00 p.m. till 4:30 I will be working on this task and take a break five minutes uh do this I I and that's very useful you can have uh some reminder some people find that useful uh others don't um I I find it not useful but uh uh you know I don't know what's your opinion on that becauseโจDave Delaney: Yeah. Well, there's a curse uh with all of what you just said, which is with ADHD, which is when the novelty runs off, right?โจSimon Weissenberger: that too.โจDave Delaney: So,โจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: it sucks because you you may find the perfect thing. So, for example, for example, like I love the Pomodoro technique of of 20 minutes working on a task with a five minute breakโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: um and then and then 20 minutes again. And I I built uh I coded and built a a timer on on y squirrels.com for like it's like under the resources it's a free like pomodoro digital pomodoro tech uh uh timer that you can use.โจ โจ
00:42:49
โจDave Delaney: In addition to that though um physically I find analog and physically things uh are really helpful. Uh and I also have a link on that site uh for a time timer countdown. Basically, it's a it's a clock that actually sits on a little timer that sits on my desk. It's a physical timer and it visually counts down the time so I can glance at it and see, holy crap, like 15 minutes has passed or I only have 10 minutes leftโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: um to work on this task. I also use uh a calendar that I created where I time block. So, I call it my ideal week and I have it in G. So, I'm I'm kind of a nerd. So I created like a a Google calendar and it's it's like I use Google calendar already for this for wise squirrels but also for my business future forth and you know all that stuff but I created an ideal calendar which is the chunking of time not to specific tasks but but general categories so like exercise or you know health um I'm looking at mine on my wall because I also printed it and it's on my wall so like planning the day top tasks creative deep work admin and communication lunch, walk, peggy, stretch, networking, meetings and coaching, uh picking up my wife from work, andโจ โจ
00:44:05
โจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: then a daily review, reflect, and wins. And so each thing is create is in a chunk of time. And that's on my calendar both digitally. And so what I use, the way I use that is I turn it on and off on my Google calendar because it overlays. So when you first create this, it's a kind of s*** show on your calendar because it's all a mess. But as you start planning time in the future, you can start saying, "Okay, you know, Simon, we've got this meeting. I can only meet you during this window because that's when I do the podcast, right? Or that's when I work on Y squirrels." Um, and you can start to slot in the meetings and things that you have to do into the actual category of time blocks that that best fit those. So, those are some of the thingsโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: I do.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah, that's uh that's very that's very interesting. And uh yeah, and then I mean in terms of other uh parts and I I'm trying I'm uh speeding through some of this but this is time perception.โจ โจ
00:45:05
โจSimon Weissenberger: Um one other part is time perspective. So and time perspective is uh it's it's less about uh this conscious um you know this consciousness. It's um psychological in the sense that it's more about are you a type of person that most of the time thinks about or lives your life in a way that you're comparing what you're doing or what you have to the past in a positive light. Meaning the past was always better. So then I'm living according to that principle or the past was bad was worse. So I'm like somebody who's maybe had a traumatic uh upbringing or has been impacted by something hard. Um then you have a present, you know, somebody who's present hedonistic. So somebody who's seeking that what what what you were saying like seeking novelty, constant novelty and having a hard time planning ahead. Um there's another like present uh let's say more mindful. It's like uh if you're if you're a Buddha or something. UmโจDave Delaney: Yep.โจSimon Weissenberger: and then you know the future uh future-minded people who kind of neglect uh this uh this pleasure and being in the moment they they're basically uh putting away you know um what's the word like with the marshmallow study.โจ โจ
00:46:38
โจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah. they're able they're able to um to postpone the pleasure and and see it inโจDave Delaney: gotโจSimon Weissenberger: the future.โจDave Delaney: the reward. Yeah. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah,โจDave Delaney: Yeah. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: there's aโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: term for it which I I should know and it's uh slipping my mind butโจDave Delaney: That'sโจSimon Weissenberger: uhโจDave Delaney: okay.โจSimon Weissenberger: bas basically what not surprisingly uh we found that uh with ADHD uh well most of the people were present hedonistic and some there was present hedonism and some were past negative. So uh a lot of pe and this is something that I am very interested in um studying further. That's actually one of the things I want to look at is uh childhood uh trauma and ADHD.โจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: Um because since ADHD is a wide I mean it's it's a there there's different you know types of course of ADHD and there's different uh explanations for it but and this is kind of you know paradoxical from what I was telling you before in this very hard you know biological side but I'm also very interested in uh seeing how you know people's 's environment and um upbringing upbringing uh and adverse events can impact uh these symptoms at least you know cuz in childhood you have you can see some kids that um may be going through stressful situations and they look like you know they they can be um misdiagnosed or thought of ADHDโจ โจ
00:48:25
โจSimon Weissenberger: when they're anxious, you know, you it's hard toโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: distinguish. You have to, you know, look at it further.โจDave Delaney: Well,โจSimon Weissenberger: But yeah,โจDave Delaney: you you're touching on stuff here because and I'm smiling. If anybody saw me on the camera right now, they'd be like, "What the heck? What kind of freak is Dave?" Because as soon as you bring up like childhood trauma, I'm like smiling. But the reason why is because I've been talking about this with some folks about this idea that I've been thinking a lot about which is that okay so ADHD is highly heritable as we know as almostโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: as heritable as height. So something you know generally speaking somewhere around like 75 80% or something likeliness that a child has ADHD if a parent has ADHD something like that. And you can correctโจSimon Weissenberger: All right.โจDave Delaney: me where I'm wrong if um and so my theory is that especially in in the generation X kind of general like my age group let's say is that so thinking of my own past and my own life I can now think and with pretty deep confidence that one or both of my parents had or have ADHD butโจ โจ
00:49:36
โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: undiagnosed. TheyโจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: had addictions. they I I had trauma as a result of some of this. Um there was impulsivity blah blah blah but there was certainly trauma be as part of that. Now because of that I experienced trauma as a child and the negative the the studies or the you know the that that a child around 10 or under or by the time they turn 10 they've heard something like 20,000 insults or or negative feedback from parents and teachers and so on. um more than a neurotypical kid. AndโจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: so you so my theory is that like yeah, I wonder like what percentage of adults maybe our age or my age with ADHD faced some form of trauma growing up. Um and and even more so and part of the maybe the purpose of this podcast too is to help because nowadays more and more adults are getting diagnosed because the you know because mental health uh therapy is is more acceptable socially but also because you know and especially for women who are missed completelyโจ โจ
00:50:43
โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: they take their kid in because a kid's acting up or whatever and the kid gets diagnosed with ADHD and the parent then says holy crap wait a minute I have ADHD or my my my spouse else has ADHD and they get diagnosed. So nowadays, it's almost like we're course correcting, but for kids from the 70s or 80s or whatever, there's a high likeliness that they my theory is there's a high likeliness they face trauma as a result of an undiagnosed parent.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah, that's uh that's very interesting. And yeah, and you you you can also I mean there's um it's it's always about you know the chicken or the egg. Of course, the egg came first. But umโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: with uh trauma, you know, you you also have to think that you have to have to remember that trauma is also something that is uh inherited. Now we know that uh that uh people's you know parents experience. So who knows how it go how long it goes back you know uh and uh in terms of what you said yes that's also um very very valid.โจ โจ
00:51:49
โจSimon Weissenberger: I I think that that's an area that needs to be further explored. I'll justโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: put it that way because um because trauma does create changes in in the brain. it creates this whole series of things and if you have you know and my point is if you have generation after generation of things um there's going to be uh visible you know visible phenotypes and and and things. So that's just um a thing. Then there's a lot of other factors if you want to go back to biological and um uh one thing that my colleagues primarily and and I also look at is uh infections. So for exampleโจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: uh COVID COVID was a big one. Um peopleโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: were you know people are still talking about COVID because it was a big deal even in terms of the neurological effects that that uh that that it had itโจDave Delaney: Right.โจSimon Weissenberger: has and um other types of uh infections other types of risks that are in uterero while you know when the mother is pregnant there's uh risk factors from things like uh pollutants uh things like plastic uh BPA.โจ โจ
00:53:16
โจSimon Weissenberger: So there's m and of course uh things that we already know like uh smoking and and the you know or otherโจDave Delaney: Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: uhโจDave Delaney: we're and we're kind of exploring right now. Sorry to interrupt. We're kind of exploring right now sort of causes or or hypothetical causes of wait not necessarily hypothetical because there is some proof to trauma as far as not trauma as in psychological trauma but trauma as in like actual physical head trauma that thatโจSimon Weissenberger: OhโจDave Delaney: myโจSimon Weissenberger: yeah.โจDave Delaney: understanding is there's it's it's not a huge number. I my understanding is that you know for the most part ADHD is heritable and it's itโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: and that's kind of generally where where one you know devel or not develops but one is born with ADHD um you know it's not something you just develop. So um but pollutants my understanding is that there is you know some information out there about pollutants causing ADHD. One thing of that I want to be clear on is and at least according to uh Russ uh Russell Barkley is you know there's people like Gabbor Mate who who has written books or or claims that like actual trauma like like uh like uh psychological trauma abuse physical abuse causes ADHD and my understanding is there's no proof of that whatsoever.โจ โจ
00:54:35
โจDave Delaney: Um, so I just wanted to have that to be clear unless something has changed.โจSimon Weissenberger: Oh, that's uh this is uh this is the right. I mean that's Gabbor Mate's uh view. I don't think it is an approve you know approved view. This is something that I want to see because uh or or further research because from just you know this is mostly anecdotal uh and this is why some you know I would like to see it research it is that kids with this um this experience of abuse display. So what is known as I said is if you have uh some kind of trauma and I don't mean head trauma but like actual psychological trauma as a child anxiety can uh look like ADHD like somebody a kid who's anxious couldโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: appear to be ADHD. IโจDave Delaney: Right.โจSimon Weissenberger: had this uh you know this discussion and there's some in the field and this is again just anecdotal but people you know work with many and they say it's it's so difficult to uh to actually say that and what I was saying it to you is if you have a history of psychological trauma that goes back you know it's it's hard to say what what outcomes can uh can come from that there because you what youโจ โจ
00:56:05
โจSimon Weissenberger: said of course it's in it's inheritable but you know that that um mutation like for example a DRD4 mutation has to come from something it's not it's usually not just a random uh mutation although it can happen with evolution it it's usually um the way we see with epigenetics it's always interconnected so the experiencesโจDave Delaney: is thatโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: I'm sorry to interrupt that is that mutation connected to ADHD or is that mutation connected to uh uh anxiety or depression likeโจSimon Weissenberger: Well,โจDave Delaney: just soโจSimon Weissenberger: DRDโจDave Delaney: I'm clear.โจSimon Weissenberger: DRD4 it's it's uh basically a do dopamine uh receptor and that's that is connected with ADHD and it's also connected with other issues that are um and and again it's like there's no single gene for ADHD but that is one that's seen with ADHD that's seen uh with certain um addictions or pre predisposition to addictions as well as in uh obesity. UhโจDave Delaney: Mhm.โจSimon Weissenberger: so so yeah, so what my point is with that is all of these things need to be looked at and I know I'm getting a little nerdy here, but they need to be uh understood from a from an evolutionary and um holistic point of view.โจ โจ
00:57:30
โจSimon Weissenberger: So where to in order for uh this to be this uh gene to be passed down, there needs to be some kind of factor that uh prompts, you know, prompts this kind of mutation. AndโจDave Delaney: Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: um yeah, and soโจDave Delaney: it's interesting. Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: yeah, I'm going a little bit uh you know, this this is more theoretical, but it's it's just uh just things that spark my interest and um yeah, but I'm awareโจDave Delaney: Well,โจSimon Weissenberger: of what what you said.โจDave Delaney: yeah. Yeah. And we know that like or at least you know my understanding is and certainly I'm a case study for it but anxiety and depression are both you know common strange bedfellows with ADHD. And soโจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: oftent times if you if if one has anxiety let's say like clinical anxiety and they're being treated for that anxiety but they're not being treated for the ADHD which could be the root cause or at least a contributor of that anxiety. You can treat the anxiety all you like and maybe have successes along the way.โจ โจ
00:58:35
โจDave Delaney: Hopefully have successes along the way, but if you're not treating like the actual root maybe I use the term cause loosely, but the root problem, let's say, or ADHD underneath thatโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: anxiety may may return as well. So, and and same with treating addictions and treating all this other stuff is that if ADHD is undiagnosed and it's there in the background, then it's it could play a factor in why you, you know, you relapse or what have you. So,โจSimon Weissenberger: Right. And and this uh just just something with the anxiety you mentioned and depression. This also ties into the emotional part of ADHD which is often overlooked, right? And this, you know, this kind of the the rejection issues that can happenโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: this uh and and I think this is so and this is a call for uh you know therapists are listen I think that um in couples therapy and just therapy in general that this needs to be focused on a lot more with ADHD because um you know if you're in a in a relationship and uh your partner has ADHDโจ โจ
00:59:42
โจDave Delaney: Heat.โจSimon Weissenberger: uh and you I mean Maybe you know about it, but this part you don't know about where there's all these uh emotional type of reactions, anxiety, anger. Um, this this can be uh really something to uh to to raise more awareness ofโจDave Delaney: Absolutely.โจSimon Weissenberger: andโจDave Delaney: Yeah. I interviewed Melissa Orof on an episode a while back who is great and she wrote a book about marriage and like or couples and ADHD and how she calls it like the the parent child dynamic which you know if the you know one spouse in my case it's me has ADHD they like unknowingly take the child dynamic or that child character and then the neurotypical spouse my wife in this case takes the parent uh uh uh role and and of course Not consciously or anything, but whatโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: happens then is that both of them end up resenting one another or getting upset with one another because theyโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: keep falling back into these and they're both both people. It's not just the neuro neurodyiver divergent or diverse person that has to address it all.โจ โจ
01:00:50
โจDave Delaney: I mean, it's it's definitely your couple and you have to work on it together. But to your point, you know, that neurotypical partner in that case needs to understand the operating system of their their spouse and why, you know, they're susceptible to things like, you know, rejection sensitive dysphoria or uh which isn't even in the DSM5 yet. And do youโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: know how howโจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: often is the DSM updated? Because I knowโจSimon Weissenberger: Well,โจDave Delaney: this is kind of a point of contention with a lot of people.โจSimon Weissenberger: well, I think it's uh there's the updated version should be uh in 20 the full update should be in 2033 and uh theโจDave Delaney: OhโจSimon Weissenberger: orโจDave Delaney: my god.โจSimon Weissenberger: 2034. Yeah, but there there's been an update already. There's the TR uh there's the re revised version which is basically in between. But um you know it's I've and it's always kind of tricky with the you know with these symptoms checklists uh they they have I mean this is kind of off topic not on ADHD but they they are doing interesting things with uh personality disorders in this revised DSM which is this more more experimental models but with ADHD this has been a critique for decades that you know that this uh effective part has been neglected and andโจ โจ
01:02:13
โจSimon Weissenberger: it's uh I don't know if it's to make the life of the psychiatrist easier to just focus on the core symptomsโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: that impact work and and school but uh yeah this this is uh super important and um yeahโจDave Delaney: Yeah.โจSimon Weissenberger: wellโจDave Delaney: No, absolutely. Yeah. So, I you know, and I know we're sort of a little over time, so tell me whenโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: we need to wrap this up, but I'm I'm really enjoying this conversation and clearly, yeah, you've done Yeah. I mean, obviously, you've done your homework and then, you know, tenfold. Um, so this is this is a fascinating conversation that I would love to keep going or maybe we should do a part two or something.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah, we I would be happy uh to do a part two. I I and I just wanted to comment real quick because what you just said and I haven't listened to that interview but you described the relationship and what is the transactional analysis right is that what she was what you're yeah so the child parent cuz this is this is something that comes up so often uh I mean it creates problems in relationships in general this dynamic of unequal uh you know I you know you become the authoritarian parent or I become the wild child or whatever it is.โจ โจ
01:03:30
โจSimon Weissenberger: Uh it's I mean there's many ways to look at it but I think that um just what you said about you know being aware of that and the partner being aware this this is a message that needs to yeah needs to be heard.โจDave Delaney: Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: So,โจDave Delaney: for sure. Yeah, Melissa Erlav is uh uh I I can't remember her her book is like something like marriage and ADHD or something to that effect and she has a website, but she she's uh I can't remember if she's a doctor or coach, but she her focus is on couples specifically. Yeah,โจSimon Weissenberger: okay. Yeah, that's I'll I'll check it out. Well,โจDave Delaney: I'mโจSimon Weissenberger: IโจDave Delaney: happyโจSimon Weissenberger: IโจDave Delaney: to connectโจSimon Weissenberger: don'tโจDave Delaney: you too.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah, and I would be happy to do a part two with this. I can be we can do it free, you know, freestyle or or go on a specific topic.โจDave Delaney: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would love to to speak more about the perception of time and and time blindnessโจ โจ
01:04:25
โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: and things because I think that's a topic that I mean, certainly for me, it resonates with me. I'll I'll I'll I'll mention like on a previous podcast I mentioned I've been podcasting 20 years. I've had several podcasts plus undiagnosed ADHD leads to multiple podcasts. But I digress. Uh I interviewed a a woman years ago uh who ran what she called an elder blog. um uh wonderful woman Ronnie Bennett sadly passed away but um and she ca she was talking about uh she she shared this idea with time that's always resonated with me which is sort of this idea of and and just generally like neurotypical it doesn't really matter but this idea that time tends to uh go quickly when you are doing things that you enjoy and things that are new and things that have novelty.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: And certainly that explains, you know, what what the the you know what people call flow and what what ADHDersโจSimon Weissenberger: Yes.โจDave Delaney: call hyperfocus regardless of whether they're hyperfocusing on something productive. You know, it might be something like, you know, suddenly theyโจ โจ
01:05:35
โจSimon Weissenberger: Right.โจDave Delaney: built, you know, knitted a quilt uh all day when they should have been doing something else. Um this podcast part probably is is part of the hyperfocus problem, but I digress on that, too. Um, but and she used the analogy of like everybody remembers that summer when they were a kid. And now I sound like I'm like quoting an Eagle song. Uh, but that summer when you're a kid and you have your first love and you maybe make out for the first time and and that summer, I think Don Henley said, seems to last forever. Um, but as you get older, um, times tends to start to slow down. And certainly speaking to my mom and other who's 80 88, she's like, "Oh Jesus, she's like she's like a year has passed in like the week or in the day." Um, and so time seemingly goes faster as you get older seemingly of course. So the the question then becomes well and the my idea from all that is and this conversation I had with Ronnie is that the more that you do new things this is why I'm a huge proponent of travel but theโจ โจ
01:06:40
โจSimon Weissenberger: Mhm.โจDave Delaney: more you do new things the slower time goes. Um so there's there's that little point. The other thing that I brought up on a previous podcast and the the my guest was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We can't do this right now because it was like this at the end of the show, but my question was for ADHDers, if time tends to go faster, ready, this is theโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: philosophical part. Are is our are because time is a construct, right? Time doesn't reallyโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: exist. So, does that mean that an ADHDer's life is shorter than a neurotypicals? And I'm not talking about birth and death.โจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: I'mโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: justโจSimon Weissenberger: Yeah.โจDave Delaney: talking about seeminglyโจSimon Weissenberger: Right. Yeah. I mean that's a great philosophical question. Uh and and just one thing that you you know you said that it goes faster. It's uh sometimes uh at least from what we found, it's also that um it's not just about perceiving it faster cuz you said like for instance a flow state or um you know beautiful day at the beach with your lover or whatever it is goes fast but it's still like it should be um like you're aware and you're you're enjoying it actively whereas uh one of the frustrations that is seen uh with ADHD is that thatโจ โจ
01:08:00
โจSimon Weissenberger: that it's like time slips. It's like slipping. You're not grasping. You're not like able to have this again, it's an illusion, but to have this feeling like you are, you know, in that right timing in that, you know, doing something correctly. Um, so yeah, I mean that but that is a good question. uh something that uh that that should uh give um you know kind of an impetus for people to um especially I mean people listeners to find ways to really like uh you know make time you know take control of your time more or have um have a sense of of uh beauty in the world of of something that that is makes you makes it worth uh being the embodied time. I like my my colleague Mark Wittmann. I'm not going to steal it from him. He's a researcher in Germany. He's the one who he wrote a book on altered states of consciousness. AndโจDave Delaney: Huh?โจSimon Weissenberger: he came he's he says is he says we are embodied time or timeโจ โจ
01:09:09
โจDave Delaney: Yes.โจSimon Weissenberger: and body. And if you think about it, it makes sense because as you said, it is um kind of a construct we need to, you know, make around uh the the earth, you know, the the the sun, etc. And and um yeah, but anyways, I I have to I have to go. It was really nice to uh speak to you and I would be happy to do a part two.โจDave Delaney: Yeah, let's let's do thatโจSimon Weissenberger: Sure.โจDave Delaney: for sure. And thank you also for for joining me. Where can people find you, learn more about what you do, and then we'll uh yeah, we'll plan part two.โจSimon Weissenberger: Sure. So, uh, actually, as I was saying, and I'm not sure if you started recording then, but, uh, I'm usually doing I I have a podcast which is, uh, not not so active at the moment, but we're I have some interviews coming up and I'm usually the inter interviewer. And, uh, my podcast is called Psychology 360. And um in terms of my uh social media presence, I'm currently not so uh not so connected to social media, I have a research gate page. Uh you can find my name. Uh it's a Simon Weissenberger and I you'll be able to spell it from the uh title. And uh besides that, I'm not so active on social media uh at all. I find itโจDave Delaney: Well,โจSimon Weissenberger: better to not be on there but I you know LinkedIn I I do have but I I I don't maybe I will to to advertise some new work but in general I find uh I find it's better to be disconnected. UmโจDave Delaney: there's a good lesson there, friends uh listening that if if uh if somebody who is an expert on time perception uh is advocating for not using social media uh I can definitely be on board. In fact, I would be a little disappointed to hear you are on social media because that is a colossal waste of time. Thanks. You too. Yeah, we'll talk soon. Bye. Thanks.โจ โจ
