PODCAST. Small Business Success with ADHD with Brooklyn Charm’s Tracie Campbell
Sponsored by Inflow. Try the free ADHD traits quiz and meet Quinn, your new AI ADHD companion. Get support when you’re stuck, overwhelmed, or just need to feel understood. Click here.
Brooklyn Charm: Entrepreneurship with ADHD and the Art of Handmade Jewelry
What happens when ADHD hyperfocus meets raw creativity and fearless entrepreneurship? For Tracie Campbell, founder of the beloved jewelry brand Brooklyn Charm, it meant turning a teenage hobby into a thriving business with loyal customers around the globe.
In this episode of ADHD Wise Squirrels, Tracie shares the remarkable journey from making jewelry at 15 to running a business that’s spanned Etsy, international markets, and brick-and-mortar locations in New York and California. Along the way, she’s been featured in and collaborated with major brands like the Broadway musical Chicago, Forbes, Urban Outfitters, Color Pop Cosmetics, and even Selena Gomez's Rare Beauty Rare Impact Benefit.
But behind the sparkle and success is a candid story of what it’s really like to build and sustain a small business with ADHD, the highs of hyperfocus and creativity, and the lows of anxiety, people-pleasing tendencies, and managing people.
From Etsy to Brick-and-Mortar Success
Brooklyn Charm’s story began in 2007, when Etsy was still in its infancy. Tracie’s unique wholesale jewelry supplies, hard to find anywhere else, sold out overnight. That unexpected success funded the leap from part-time creator to full-time entrepreneur. Within a few years, the business expanded to artisan markets and then to a permanent storefront in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, at the height of its “hipster era.”
The real game-changer? A custom charm bar that lets customers design one-of-a-kind pieces on the spot. What started as an experiment at the Brooklyn Flea became the signature experience that fueled Brooklyn Charm’s brick-and-mortar expansion.
The ADHD Advantage and the Challenges
Diagnosed with ADD (now ADHD) in the third grade, Tracie has spent her entire life aware of how her brain works. Hyperfocus became her superpower in the jewelry studio, while her ability to juggle multiple projects brought creative breakthroughs. But running a growing team brought new challenges, including managing up to sixteen staff members at once and balancing the constant demands of customers, vendors, and collaborators.
Tracie opens up about moments of intense anxiety, including a panic attack at the post office that led to her first hire, and the ongoing challenge of finding employees who thrive alongside her neurodivergent style. We also share how ADHD often pairs with anxiety and depression, and how therapy and the proper medication can help find stability.
People-Pleasing and the Cost of Caring
One of the most relatable parts of our conversation is Tracie’s honesty about being a people-pleaser, a trait that can be both a strength and a liability for entrepreneurs. We explore how ADHD, empathy, and even early life experiences can amplify the need to keep everyone happy, and how that can create unnecessary stress in leadership roles.
Tracie reflects on the importance of setting boundaries, learning to say no, and accepting that not everyone will like you even as you strive to create a kind, collaborative work environment.
A Charm That Captures ADHD
In a special moment during the episode, I ask Tracie to design a charm that represents ADHD. Her answer is pure artistry: a spiral within a bursting sun. The spiral reflects the cyclical nature of ADHD and the process of finding one’s center, while the sun captures the sense of constant movement, energy, and potential. It’s a symbol that blends beauty with meaning, much like her work at Brooklyn Charm. Now that’s a charm I would wear with pride, wouldn’t you?
Why You Should Listen
If you’ve ever wondered how neurodivergence shapes an entrepreneurial journey, or if you’re a creative with ADHD dreaming of starting your own business, this episode is packed with inspiration and real-world insight. We talk about:
How Brooklyn Charm went viral and attracted major brand collaborations
The reality of scaling a small business with ADHD
The unique advantages and challenges of ADHD hyperfocus in entrepreneurship
Balancing creativity with the demands of leadership and operations
How to turn a personal challenge into a source of connection with customers
🎧 Listen to the full episode to hear Tracie’s unfiltered take on creativity, business, and living with ADHD, plus her thoughts on why Nashville might be the next chapter in her entrepreneurial story.
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[00:00.000 --> 00:15.560] Welcome to Why Squirrels, the podcast for late diagnosed adults with ADHD.
[00:15.560 --> 00:18.000] I'm your host, Dave Delaney.
[00:18.000 --> 00:25.440] You know a lot of the time on this podcast, I speak with ADHD coaches, physicians, with
[00:25.440 --> 00:29.600] PhDs, people that study ADHD and research it.
[00:29.600 --> 00:35.320] And one thing I'd love to do also is shine a light on successful people with ADHD.
[00:35.320 --> 00:39.440] People that have really done well, very well in their careers.
[00:39.440 --> 00:45.400] For example, I spoke with the former director of the International Space Station for NASA
[00:45.400 --> 00:47.240] for 16 years.
[00:47.240 --> 00:49.680] We didn't speak for 16 years.
[00:49.680 --> 00:55.840] He did the role for 16 years and was later diagnosed with ADHD at 60.
[00:55.840 --> 00:59.720] Dr. Bob Dempsey, if you haven't heard that episode.
[00:59.720 --> 01:02.080] Today I'm speaking with Tracy Campbell.
[01:02.080 --> 01:06.400] Tracy is the genius behind the brand Brooklyn Charm.
[01:06.400 --> 01:13.280] What's cool is that Tracy started with an Etsy store and grew and grew and grew to brick
[01:13.280 --> 01:20.000] and mortar locations in Brooklyn, New York, of course, Manhattan, Venice Beach, California,
[01:20.000 --> 01:22.040] and Ventura, California.
[01:22.040 --> 01:29.360] She's a true success story in every way and she's a ADHDer, like us.
[01:29.360 --> 01:33.240] So I'm very excited about sharing this interview with you today.
[01:33.240 --> 01:37.480] We speak about going from Etsy to a brick and mortar success.
[01:37.480 --> 01:43.840] We talk about the ADHD advantage and some of the challenges we spoke about people pleasing
[01:43.840 --> 01:50.560] and the cost of caring when it comes to pleasing people and where some of that might come
[01:50.560 --> 01:51.560] from.
[01:51.560 --> 01:57.760] She shares how Brooklyn Charm went viral and attracted major brand collaborations.
[01:57.760 --> 02:03.520] She spoke of the reality of scaling a business, a small business with ADHD, some of the challenges
[02:03.520 --> 02:09.720] that she had to overcome, plus the unique advantages and challenges, as I said, of ADHD
[02:09.720 --> 02:13.240] hyperfocus, especially when it comes to entrepreneurship.
[02:13.240 --> 02:18.000] We spoke about balancing creativity with the demands of leadership and operations for
[02:18.000 --> 02:22.960] a business and also how to turn a personal challenge into a source of connection with
[02:22.960 --> 02:24.320] customers.
[02:24.320 --> 02:30.360] This is a really fun, inspiring conversation and one that I'm excited for you to tune
[02:30.360 --> 02:31.680] into.
[02:31.680 --> 02:36.840] Do you ever listen to Y Squirrels and you're like, I have a comment, I have a question,
[02:36.840 --> 02:39.040] I want to hear my voice on the show.
[02:39.040 --> 02:41.280] Well, there's an easy way to do that, you know?
[02:41.280 --> 02:47.960] Visit ysquirrels.com slash comments and you can record a comment and I'll include it
[02:47.960 --> 02:49.520] in an upcoming episode.
[02:49.520 --> 02:55.480] I look forward to hearing from you and sharing your voice with our fellow Y Squirrels.
[02:55.480 --> 02:59.640] A quick moment to thank our sponsor, Inflow.
[02:59.640 --> 03:04.800] If you're dealing with ADHD, you know it's not just about focus, it's the emotional
[03:04.800 --> 03:10.160] roller coasters, the forgotten tasks and the shame that builds up because of that.
[03:10.160 --> 03:15.000] That's why I love what Inflow is doing, especially with their new tool, Quinn.
[03:15.000 --> 03:21.080] Quinn is an in-app AI companion that helps you through those tough emotional moments,
[03:21.080 --> 03:25.720] stuff like rejection sensitivity, burnout or spiraling thoughts.
[03:25.720 --> 03:30.560] Quinn's there with validation and small, doable steps that actually help.
[03:30.560 --> 03:36.800] It's been described as a diary that talks back and honestly that's pretty accurate.
[03:36.800 --> 03:43.680] Hop on over to ysquirrels.com slash Inflow and check out Quinn in the Inflow app.
[03:43.680 --> 03:46.000] Give it a whirl and let me know what you think.
[03:46.000 --> 03:51.720] I'd love your feedback and we thank Inflow for their sponsorship of Y Squirrels.
[03:51.720 --> 03:58.040] And speaking of sponsorships, I'm always interested in exploring new partnerships with you.
[03:58.040 --> 04:04.360] So if you are interested in sponsoring Y Squirrels, just go to ysquirrels.com slash sponsor
[04:04.360 --> 04:05.520] for details.
[04:05.520 --> 04:10.160] And now, if you've been thinking about starting a small business, perhaps you already have
[04:10.160 --> 04:13.720] one, this interview is going to be very inspiring.
[04:13.720 --> 04:15.120] My name is Tracy Campbell.
[04:15.120 --> 04:23.400] I own a jewelry company based here in California and we have one in New York as well in Brooklyn.
[04:23.400 --> 04:29.240] So we specialize in customized jewelry at an affordable price point.
[04:29.240 --> 04:34.760] And I have been doing that business concept as Brooklyn Charm for the last 15 years.
[04:34.760 --> 04:39.560] But I have been making jewelry for 25 years or so long time.
[04:39.800 --> 04:40.400] That's awesome.
[04:40.400 --> 04:44.920] Yeah, I was reading that you started jewelry making at 15 years old.
[04:44.920 --> 04:48.920] Did you ever think to like look back at that and just go like, oh, wow, that was,
[04:48.920 --> 04:54.040] that would maybe the ADHD energy that helped you kind of hyper focus on creating jewelry
[04:54.040 --> 04:55.200] and things.
[04:55.200 --> 04:56.200] Absolutely.
[04:56.200 --> 05:01.000] It is the ultimate hyper focus that I have.
[05:01.000 --> 05:05.040] Oh, like, maybe sometimes over even like parenting my child probably.
[05:05.040 --> 05:08.360] Well, it's great though.
[05:08.360 --> 05:12.880] I mean, I think, you know, we all have to find, you know, different ways to channel who
[05:12.880 --> 05:17.880] we are and, you know, if we can do that into our businesses or our jobs at least, you
[05:17.880 --> 05:23.000] know, to have good sound, sound careers, I think that's a great thing.
[05:23.000 --> 05:27.600] And yeah, tell me, tell me about the business a little bit because it's, it's, you've, you've,
[05:27.600 --> 05:31.840] I mean, you've had incredible success.
[05:31.840 --> 05:34.680] How many about some of those, some of those successes?
[05:34.680 --> 05:41.280] Uh, well, you know, when I opened my store in Brooklyn in Williamsburg in 2010, I would
[05:41.280 --> 05:45.280] say that it was like the peak hipster era of Brooklyn.
[05:45.280 --> 05:46.280] Yeah.
[05:46.280 --> 05:50.920] And so that was like when Williamsburg was still kind of like cool is the best way that
[05:50.920 --> 05:51.920] I can put it.
[05:51.920 --> 05:56.240] And so I like to think that I was like one of those fun, cool stores that opened up
[05:56.240 --> 05:57.240] during that time.
[05:57.240 --> 06:02.760] We had like a gallery down the street, like, you know, dog supply place Japanese market.
[06:02.760 --> 06:04.480] I was just off the main drag.
[06:04.480 --> 06:07.960] So I wasn't paying high rent, like some of our neighbors were.
[06:07.960 --> 06:13.200] So I feel like I lived in New York City and opened my business during like a really special
[06:13.200 --> 06:19.560] time in history in New York, you know, and it was coming off the, uh, curtail of the
[06:19.560 --> 06:26.640] OA crash and I was in an industry that again was like affordable, right?
[06:26.640 --> 06:31.600] So maybe find jewelry, luxury brands, all these companies that were like focused on like
[06:31.600 --> 06:33.440] big ticket money items.
[06:33.440 --> 06:38.560] I was, you know, pushing a product that even if someone was broke or lost their job, like
[06:38.560 --> 06:41.600] just put that on the credit card and we'll pay that off later, you know?
[06:41.600 --> 06:42.600] Yeah.
[06:42.600 --> 06:43.600] Yeah.
[06:43.600 --> 06:47.360] And you've done cool collaborations and things with like Forbes and Broadway and Chicago,
[06:47.360 --> 06:52.080] the show, Chicago, um, went out to Urban Outfitters, Urban Outfit.
[06:52.080 --> 06:58.440] Color pop cosmetics, yeah, we're, we're doing something with a French luxury brand here
[06:58.440 --> 06:59.440] coming up.
[06:59.440 --> 07:04.120] And I mean, a lot of those kind of, those opportunities came up, you know, through the
[07:04.120 --> 07:08.560] business going viral, but even before all the viral stuff, you know, we had, we were
[07:08.560 --> 07:12.960] in Manhattan too in Chelsea market, uh, for a long time.
[07:12.960 --> 07:18.680] And that place was crazy because it's just one of the highest foot traffic tourist areas
[07:18.680 --> 07:20.600] in New York City.
[07:20.600 --> 07:27.080] And so that opened a lot of doors for us when we were again, like in the early 2010s, you
[07:27.080 --> 07:33.920] know, that we had a partnership with a Japanese company that opened several Brooklyn Charms
[07:33.920 --> 07:34.920] throughout.
[07:34.920 --> 07:40.680] Uh, Japan, those are no longer around, but you can take COVID for that, uh, yeah.
[07:40.680 --> 07:46.520] And then even in Denmark, we had one at Denmark, one point, that one fizzled out only because
[07:46.520 --> 07:50.280] the owner's husband was like a famous musician out there.
[07:50.280 --> 07:53.960] So I think they just kind of, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, on that.
[07:53.960 --> 07:57.600] But yeah, I mean, I just, that was what was amazing about New York.
[07:57.600 --> 08:05.680] And I think why I moved out there was because I just saw the potential for myself more so
[08:05.680 --> 08:11.160] than I saw it here in Southern California, even though I'm back, um, you know, I left
[08:11.160 --> 08:14.720] a Californian and I came back in New York or like for sure.
[08:14.720 --> 08:15.720] Yeah.
[08:15.720 --> 08:16.720] Yeah.
[08:16.720 --> 08:17.720] And how long have you been back?
[08:17.720 --> 08:20.000] What, what part of Southern California are you in?
[08:20.000 --> 08:25.960] I'm, I'm in Ventura County, uh, so my shop that I have here in California is in Ventura,
[08:25.960 --> 08:29.400] uh, but I live in a park now, which is where I'm born and raised.
[08:29.400 --> 08:30.400] Okay.
[08:30.400 --> 08:31.400] Nice.
[08:31.400 --> 08:32.400] Nice.
[08:32.400 --> 08:39.440] My name is girlfriend or doing a road trip to LA from Nashville, uh, in a few weeks.
[08:39.440 --> 08:45.360] So yeah, is actually like I've never been there, but I think about like if I were to open
[08:45.360 --> 08:50.320] my business in another state, like Nashville is on like the top of my list.
[08:50.320 --> 08:55.000] Obviously, I have to visit there first, but yeah, I can see myself being like semi-retired
[08:55.000 --> 08:56.080] life and natural.
[08:56.080 --> 09:01.800] If I don't, if I can't, if I don't stay by the beach, you know, yeah, yeah, well, yeah.
[09:01.800 --> 09:06.400] It's, uh, yeah, Nashville's, Nashville's a great city and it's, it's definitely doing
[09:06.400 --> 09:11.160] quite well given the economy and sort of the state of things that Nashville's kind of
[09:11.160 --> 09:12.520] doing, doing quite well.
[09:12.520 --> 09:15.680] So, um, yeah, I'm from Toronto originally.
[09:15.680 --> 09:20.160] So I've been, but I've been in Nashville for nearly 18 years now.
[09:20.160 --> 09:21.160] Obviously.
[09:21.160 --> 09:22.160] Well, very cool.
[09:22.160 --> 09:25.880] Well, I'll definitely reach out to you, link, uh, if we can have a way.
[09:25.880 --> 09:32.080] I have a friend who has a shop out there, uh, any old iron and, uh, he sells a lot of
[09:32.080 --> 09:38.000] clothing or loans, a lot of clothing, both to, uh, like celebrities and musicians and stuff
[09:38.000 --> 09:39.000] like that.
[09:39.000 --> 09:40.000] So that's cool.
[09:40.000 --> 09:41.000] Uh, yeah.
[09:41.000 --> 09:47.040] Um, so it's fun to see kind of like his success and him, him grow in that industry, uh,
[09:47.040 --> 09:48.040] as well.
[09:48.040 --> 09:53.400] So tell me, like, so, um, and if I don't have the note in front of me, like how old were
[09:53.400 --> 10:01.040] you when you were diagnosed with ADHD or ADD, right, ADHD or were you ADD person then ADHD
[10:01.040 --> 10:02.040] came later?
[10:02.040 --> 10:03.040] Yeah.
[10:03.040 --> 10:06.840] Um, I'm early, um, diagnosis.
[10:06.840 --> 10:11.440] So I was diagnosed in third grade and they started me on Ritalin.
[10:11.440 --> 10:13.600] I was very hyperactive my whole life.
[10:13.600 --> 10:17.840] All my cousins would always call me a brat, but like in a, in, in during way.
[10:17.840 --> 10:18.840] Yeah.
[10:18.840 --> 10:23.960] Um, I didn't get a lot of, I didn't get enough tension, right?
[10:23.960 --> 10:25.440] For like a kid like that.
[10:25.440 --> 10:30.760] So I think I kind of drove some of my teachers crazy and that was when they were like, okay,
[10:30.760 --> 10:34.120] we need to like figure this one out.
[10:34.120 --> 10:35.120] Right.
[10:35.120 --> 10:39.000] You know, I had a little trauma in my second grade with a second grade teacher and just
[10:39.000 --> 10:40.280] through my childhood too.
[10:40.280 --> 10:46.440] So I think some of the times that kind of stuff, you know, exacerbates, you know, those,
[10:46.440 --> 10:48.400] the way that you are, you know.
[10:48.400 --> 10:57.400] Um, uh, and yeah, um, I was on the ADD stuff up until junior high and I wasn't on it for
[10:57.400 --> 11:03.840] a couple of years in high school, but then I was like falling off really bad and they put
[11:03.840 --> 11:11.680] me back on it, um, my junior senior year and it helped and it didn't help because when
[11:11.680 --> 11:16.320] I was a senior, they were coming out with new stuff other than Ritalin.
[11:16.320 --> 11:22.920] So Adderall was still fairly into the market, Stratera, Dexitrin, I don't know if I'm saying
[11:22.920 --> 11:27.080] these correctly, but like I mean, it's been over 20 years since I've taken them, but these
[11:27.080 --> 11:34.280] were things that they were giving me and it didn't set well with me actually.
[11:34.280 --> 11:38.640] And my, when I was, when that happened, the Ritalin was the only one that ever really like
[11:38.640 --> 11:46.280] truly helped me, uh, but funny enough, when I hit 22 and really decided what my feelings
[11:46.280 --> 11:54.200] for the field was going to be jewelry, I quit cold turkey on the ADD stuff, drugs, and
[11:54.200 --> 11:56.080] I have never looked, I've never looked back.
[11:56.080 --> 12:02.000] I mean, I also had job problems and sleep problems like, you know, like I do, I do truly
[12:02.000 --> 12:07.240] believe that that stuff helps people because again, like, you know, I know ADD and ADHD when
[12:07.240 --> 12:13.080] I see it, uh, and it just, it just got to a point where it was like no longer serving
[12:13.080 --> 12:14.080] me, you know.
[12:14.080 --> 12:15.080] Yeah.
[12:15.080 --> 12:16.080] And that's fair.
[12:16.080 --> 12:17.080] That totally makes sense.
[12:17.080 --> 12:20.320] I mean, it's definitely, you know, different strokes for different folks and certainly, you
[12:20.320 --> 12:24.480] know, everything that I've read and, you know, I always say on the show, it's like a drinking
[12:24.480 --> 12:25.480] game.
[12:25.480 --> 12:28.840] And at this point, you can take a drink that, when I say that I'm not a doctor, nor do
[12:28.840 --> 12:32.400] I play one on the internet, right?
[12:32.400 --> 12:40.320] But that said, yeah, I mean, yeah, I know like stimulants work because I've experienced
[12:40.320 --> 12:43.480] it myself, being late diagnosed.
[12:43.480 --> 12:49.520] And I didn't have that eureka moment when I, well, first of all, I, I started on, on
[12:49.520 --> 12:55.320] stimulants that were prescribed by my doctor, my GP, when I was diagnosed.
[12:55.320 --> 13:00.360] And there was some weird side effects, nothing terrible, but there's some things.
[13:00.360 --> 13:04.640] And so he switched me to something else and then we experimented with doses a little
[13:04.640 --> 13:05.640] bit.
[13:05.640 --> 13:06.640] And then he's like, you know what?
[13:06.640 --> 13:07.640] This isn't my expertise.
[13:07.640 --> 13:11.960] You do a therapist like a psychiatrist who can actually help you manage your meds.
[13:11.960 --> 13:18.160] And so with her, you know, we tried, you know, different, not a lot, but different things.
[13:18.160 --> 13:23.880] Because it's first like, you try the thing and then you, you on a low level, on a low
[13:23.880 --> 13:29.360] dose and then you increase that dose, this is my experience at least, you increase that
[13:29.360 --> 13:31.720] dose until the point where it feels good.
[13:31.720 --> 13:35.800] Or if you're not, if it's not working well or you're getting side effects or whatever,
[13:35.800 --> 13:40.760] you switch to a different medication and then start again and rinse and repeat.
[13:40.760 --> 13:46.080] So, um, and I, yeah, I found it to be, I mean, one of the interesting things that I always
[13:46.080 --> 13:52.600] find, well, tragically hilarious, maybe, but how people are like worried because they think
[13:52.600 --> 13:53.600] they're addictive.
[13:53.600 --> 14:00.440] And it's like, ask any ADHD or they forget to take their meds all the time or they forget
[14:00.440 --> 14:01.440] their meds in general.
[14:01.440 --> 14:05.680] They go away for a week and they forget their, so that's like, you know, and if they
[14:05.680 --> 14:10.320] were addicted, I could assure anyone that if you were addicted to something, there's
[14:10.320 --> 14:14.400] no way you were going to forget to take anything, right?
[14:14.400 --> 14:15.400] Um, smoking.
[14:15.400 --> 14:21.760] A person doesn't look at it as something to be addictive, you know, like, right.
[14:21.760 --> 14:29.520] You know, I had a friend in college who wanted a pill and I gave her one and like, she crunched
[14:29.520 --> 14:31.520] it up and started in front of me.
[14:31.520 --> 14:36.000] And I was like, never again, am I letting anyone have this?
[14:36.000 --> 14:38.240] I was shook, like, shocked.
[14:38.240 --> 14:42.120] I'm like, I've been taking this up since I was in third grade and I'm like, why are you
[14:42.120 --> 14:43.120] doing that?
[14:43.120 --> 14:44.760] And she's just like, it gets to me faster.
[14:44.760 --> 14:46.560] And I'm like, this is not a party drug.
[14:46.560 --> 14:50.680] Like, this is not, uh, yeah.
[14:50.680 --> 14:54.320] And yeah, no, exactly.
[14:54.320 --> 14:56.880] And it didn't work out very well with that roommate anyways.
[14:56.880 --> 15:01.500] So, yeah, it sounds like it made out of, that would be my gay, but if I was a big
[15:01.500 --> 15:06.140] gambling person, I would be like, yeah, so she did, she looked at it, she viewed it as
[15:06.140 --> 15:12.060] a drug and I did not, you know, it was just, it was a different substance for me and it
[15:12.060 --> 15:19.380] was to help me with my own, you know, productivity and coping mechanisms for things that triggered
[15:19.380 --> 15:20.380] my ADHD.
[15:20.380 --> 15:25.980] Like, you know, and that's the thing too is like, finding out what triggers that too, right?
[15:25.980 --> 15:31.420] Like, because it's not like the ADHD is on all the time, you know, like, you have
[15:31.420 --> 15:38.580] moments where you're totally feeling focused and have calmness and, you know, and then,
[15:38.580 --> 15:43.420] then all of a sudden, like, it comes out of nowhere and it's like a rush of feeling it
[15:43.420 --> 15:44.420] almost.
[15:44.420 --> 15:47.900] And then it's like, wait, why can't I not focus on anything right now?
[15:47.900 --> 15:54.940] And it's like, sometimes it's two noises going on at once, you know, or, um, hearing
[15:54.940 --> 15:59.860] bad news or, you know, yeah, there's so many.
[15:59.860 --> 16:04.380] I find that does happen where you, yeah, I mean, when you, when you, well, this podcast
[16:04.380 --> 16:05.580] is a great example, right?
[16:05.580 --> 16:10.100] Like I do it all myself, I edit to show myself, I do it all, um, I probably should answer
[16:10.100 --> 16:15.340] some of it or get somebody to help me with some of this, but it's a labor of love.
[16:15.340 --> 16:18.900] I mean, I love podcasting or studied radio and television broadcasting.
[16:18.900 --> 16:23.220] I've, you know, I've been podcasting 20 years, uh, this October.
[16:23.220 --> 16:24.820] This show is obviously new.
[16:24.820 --> 16:28.180] It's only been around a couple of years since I was diagnosed.
[16:28.180 --> 16:35.100] But I love, I love the topic and I love, um, my point to it though is that like, uh, with
[16:35.100 --> 16:39.140] hyper focus, something, you know, the kids call flow, yeah, everybody's, I'm trying to
[16:39.140 --> 16:40.140] get to my flow state.
[16:40.140 --> 16:43.780] And it's like, well, ADHDers have no problem with flow.
[16:43.780 --> 16:48.780] The only problem is we start to flow into like, you know, we fall down rabbit holes and
[16:48.780 --> 16:54.140] get distracted by things that we probably, maybe shouldn't be doing, um, right, not bad
[16:54.140 --> 16:58.460] things necessarily, but just like you think of a new design and then you're like, what
[16:58.460 --> 17:02.820] is the name of that color or what is, you know, and is that color of popular color this
[17:02.820 --> 17:05.460] year and look at the different pantome codes or colors?
[17:05.460 --> 17:13.060] And I'm always working at like five projects at once when I'm like in, uh, two, so, yeah.
[17:13.060 --> 17:18.860] When I'm at work, I, you know, I have staff and employees and I always joke, they always
[17:18.860 --> 17:24.820] joke around that I leave like a path of destruction, you know, when I'm working on everything.
[17:24.820 --> 17:27.340] But then again, I'll be the opposite.
[17:27.340 --> 17:33.140] I'll come in and they leave a path of destruction and I'm sitting there cleaning up after all
[17:33.140 --> 17:38.900] of them and I can't even get to the thing that I want to do because I cannot do it until
[17:38.900 --> 17:44.020] that stuff is cleaned up, you know, and then I end up doing other people's work and that's
[17:44.020 --> 17:48.740] okay, but, you know, um, you know, I can do both.
[17:48.740 --> 17:49.740] Yeah.
[17:49.740 --> 17:54.540] Well, but one of the reasons why I wanted to chat with you so much too is, you know, I speak
[17:54.540 --> 17:59.860] to a lot of medical professionals, psychologists, psychiatrists and so on and, and also just
[17:59.860 --> 18:03.700] like, uh, you know, ADHD coaches and things.
[18:03.700 --> 18:09.060] Um, and I wanted to speak to more sort of air quotes, high achievers with ADHD to kind
[18:09.060 --> 18:15.260] of learn from them about not necessarily like about working around, not around, but working
[18:15.260 --> 18:17.660] with your ADHD, you know, it's part of who you are.
[18:17.660 --> 18:19.660] It's how you're, it's your neurotype.
[18:19.660 --> 18:24.940] Um, and I mean, you've been aware of it at least, you know, most of your life, which helps.
[18:24.940 --> 18:29.820] You also bring some insights from that awareness and self-knowledge, I'm sure.
[18:29.820 --> 18:36.580] So, um, maybe like maybe putting ADHD on hold for a second or letting it in as you like,
[18:36.580 --> 18:45.300] but how does one start a business that is successful as yours, um, with or without ADHD?
[18:45.300 --> 18:47.300] I mean, you started in 2010, right?
[18:47.300 --> 18:50.900] You said the story with a store friend or open.
[18:50.900 --> 18:51.900] Yeah.
[18:51.900 --> 18:52.900] The retail store opened.
[18:52.900 --> 18:58.260] I started my business in 07, just like doing online and e-commerce, like Etsy or something
[18:58.260 --> 18:59.260] or a web.
[18:59.260 --> 19:00.260] Yeah.
[19:00.260 --> 19:04.660] Actually, I kind of like people, the eBay days, yeah, sure.
[19:04.700 --> 19:07.420] I was at the birth of Etsy.
[19:07.420 --> 19:09.540] I was there at the very beginning stages.
[19:09.540 --> 19:13.780] And so I found a niche for myself quite quickly.
[19:13.780 --> 19:21.220] And as a jewelry maker, it was hard to sell my jewelry on there because 75% of the people
[19:21.220 --> 19:24.100] on Etsy and at that time were jewelry makers either.
[19:24.100 --> 19:28.140] So I was like going on there trying to sell my own jewelry to the same people who was like,
[19:28.140 --> 19:32.900] I'm not going to buy jewelry from people I'm, you know, making jewelry, yeah,
[19:32.900 --> 19:33.900] credit it with.
[19:33.900 --> 19:34.900] Sure.
[19:34.900 --> 19:41.060] And so they, and they were letting jewelry supplies on, you know, and D-stash and crafting supplies
[19:41.060 --> 19:43.100] on and vintage on there.
[19:43.100 --> 19:49.740] And so, you know, I, I love shopping and I used to work at Michaels for a long time.
[19:49.740 --> 19:54.220] And I'd like a, you know, crafting supply background.
[19:54.220 --> 20:00.940] And so I started, you know, buying wholesale bulk jewelry supplies that like close out places.
[20:00.940 --> 20:05.740] So like I was putting things up there that you literally couldn't get at Michaels or any
[20:05.740 --> 20:07.180] craft store.
[20:07.180 --> 20:08.700] And it just took off immediately.
[20:08.700 --> 20:10.020] I got really lucky.
[20:10.020 --> 20:14.180] And in fact, I, I remember I stayed up till four o'clock in the morning, like another
[20:14.180 --> 20:17.740] ADD lifestyle is sometimes just staying up all night.
[20:17.740 --> 20:21.940] And I listed 20 things on the website on Etsy.
[20:21.940 --> 20:23.860] And I woke up in the morning and they were all gone.
[20:23.860 --> 20:25.940] And I thought Etsy shut me down.
[20:25.940 --> 20:28.700] And I was like, oh, I spent all night working on it.
[20:28.700 --> 20:32.340] And then I go and I look and everything was sold.
[20:32.340 --> 20:37.020] So like from four in the morning till 12 in the afternoon, everything I put up on the
[20:37.020 --> 20:40.940] site was like, this was before you could put quantities and everything like that.
[20:40.940 --> 20:44.380] Like it was, I had made 75 bucks while I was sleeping.
[20:44.380 --> 20:48.140] And I was, I mean, and it just kind of took off from there.
[20:48.140 --> 20:53.060] I mean, honestly, I didn't know I was starting my own company, you know, like I came out
[20:53.060 --> 20:54.980] of art school.
[20:54.980 --> 20:57.900] And I was a little disappointed with my school in the sense.
[20:57.940 --> 21:04.660] I'm a great art program, but they really set me up with the concept that I was going
[21:04.660 --> 21:08.500] to be in business for myself as an artist.
[21:08.500 --> 21:11.860] I just always thought, like, you know, you go to school, you do college, like you get
[21:11.860 --> 21:16.420] a job, you know, even as an artist, like I just imagine being an artist with a job,
[21:16.420 --> 21:19.060] not being independent like that.
[21:19.060 --> 21:26.300] And so it was really liberating because I never really kept a job very well other than
[21:26.300 --> 21:31.300] working at Michael's and like this one in a bead store, you know, I, but I had many
[21:31.300 --> 21:38.300] jobs, many hats, you know, hostess, waitress, bar, tender, I got a worse waitress.
[21:38.300 --> 21:42.460] I mean, still retail, all of it.
[21:42.460 --> 21:48.980] And so it was just, yeah, it was amazing, like it just immediately, I was so in supplies
[21:48.980 --> 21:49.980] like crazy.
[21:50.780 --> 21:58.700] I was like the number one or top five jewelry supplier on Etsy for the first few years
[21:58.700 --> 22:07.220] of their existence until super saturated, you know, and that kind of got me going with.
[22:07.220 --> 22:12.340] And that again, that was like, I wasn't really making or creating or being an artist.
[22:12.340 --> 22:18.180] I was more curating, right, like picking out like charms and chains and beads and findings
[22:18.180 --> 22:22.620] that I was drawn to and that's like what I think on Etsy.
[22:22.620 --> 22:26.540] And you know, trying to also have something that like nobody else had or, you know, I
[22:26.540 --> 22:30.100] don't want to compete with people like I want to have something unique.
[22:30.100 --> 22:31.100] Yeah.
[22:31.100 --> 22:35.340] So that, that was like the root of the early success.
[22:35.340 --> 22:36.340] That's amazing.
[22:36.340 --> 22:37.460] That's, that's amazing.
[22:37.460 --> 22:41.980] Did you have like, it's funny, actually, I sold, I set up an Etsy store when my daughter
[22:41.980 --> 22:47.540] was like, I think 11 or 12 and her and her friend were making all the slime all the
[22:47.540 --> 22:51.900] time, like during that craze, they're making tons of homemade slime.
[22:51.900 --> 22:57.460] And so I taught them like I managed it all for them, but I created an Etsy store and
[22:57.460 --> 23:03.860] we sold the slime, we entered, we entered, we shipped it to Switzerland even and it wasn't
[23:03.860 --> 23:06.460] my brother who lives there with someone stranger about it.
[23:06.460 --> 23:10.860] And so we were like selling slime online.
[23:10.860 --> 23:14.300] And yeah, it was just such a cool thing because I wanted, I wanted them to see sort of
[23:14.300 --> 23:18.540] this, the opportunities out there with, you know, online businesses and entrepreneurship
[23:18.540 --> 23:22.580] and things because I think, uh, yeah, obviously there's, there's a lot to be had.
[23:22.580 --> 23:27.500] Um, did you have like a mentor, parents, like who, a family member, like who was it that
[23:27.500 --> 23:32.740] or was it just you reading books and thinking, okay, if I do this or this or?
[23:32.740 --> 23:36.820] Um, I mean, I had help along the way for sure.
[23:36.820 --> 23:42.900] I mean, my parents, you know, helped me with, with start, in fact, I borrowed like 200
[23:43.020 --> 23:48.020] for my mom and went and bought all the supplies and was able to pay her back immediately.
[23:48.020 --> 23:53.500] And then my husband, now he was my boyfriend at the time, he's been, he's my business partner
[23:53.500 --> 24:00.100] basically and he's been, you know, there with me all through the, the way and incredibly
[24:00.100 --> 24:05.420] back, he's building out our register for the Venice Beach location as we speak.
[24:05.420 --> 24:06.420] So amazing.
[24:06.420 --> 24:12.540] Um, you know, I just, I did, I, I'm not a good reader because again, 80, 80, like reading
[24:12.660 --> 24:13.380] is tough for me.
[24:13.380 --> 24:18.220] I don't even necessarily have the attention span for podcasts either because my brain just
[24:18.220 --> 24:21.380] goes off in other directions and then I can't, and then I'm like, wait, what did they
[24:21.380 --> 24:22.380] just say?
[24:22.380 --> 24:28.020] You know, so I read a lot of magazines working at the craft stores, um, you know, and I'm
[24:28.020 --> 24:32.820] very much self taught in the like crafting jewelry area.
[24:32.820 --> 24:39.340] Uh, and I went to art school and I did put an emphasis in metal smithing, uh, so, you
[24:39.340 --> 24:47.780] know, I do have a more like formal education on silver smithing and metals and materials
[24:47.780 --> 24:49.300] and all that stuff.
[24:49.300 --> 24:54.860] So again, that was what was kind of neat, like, no, like, no mentor, just like a passion
[24:54.860 --> 24:58.940] for something, you know, like my daughter even said the other day is she's like, mom,
[24:58.940 --> 25:07.020] you're obsessed, you know, I mean, you found your thing, which is, you know, I mean,
[25:07.020 --> 25:09.260] a lot of people are still looking for theirs, right?
[25:09.260 --> 25:10.860] And maybe you won't find it.
[25:10.860 --> 25:15.660] Like a lot of people, you know, search through their lives of, it's fantastic that you did
[25:15.660 --> 25:16.660] that.
[25:16.660 --> 25:19.660] Um, what about like opening a brick and mortar business?
[25:19.660 --> 25:24.460] Cause I mean, it's a lot, it's, uh, all of a lot easier to open an online store, uh,
[25:24.460 --> 25:28.820] especially with a platform like Etsy or eBay or whatever it is these days, marketplace
[25:28.820 --> 25:30.060] or what, what have you.
[25:30.060 --> 25:35.460] So, you know, at some point, you're like, I need to sell this from a store or how did
[25:35.460 --> 25:36.460] that happen?
[25:36.460 --> 25:41.620] Uh, yeah, you know, I, so selling online was good and all, right?
[25:41.620 --> 25:46.540] But I hit a plateau and there, it was a, you know, there was just a point where like
[25:46.540 --> 25:50.620] for a couple of years living in New York City, I couldn't, like, I couldn't get my bank
[25:50.620 --> 25:52.100] account over a certain amount.
[25:52.100 --> 25:56.740] And it was just like stuck at $4,000 for like two or three years.
[25:56.740 --> 26:02.540] And so I was like, what, what do I do to, you know, further this?
[26:02.540 --> 26:10.220] And I was actually selling my own jewelry at a local artisan market on the weekends.
[26:10.220 --> 26:13.660] That again, you're competing against so many other jewelry makers.
[26:13.660 --> 26:15.700] So that was tough.
[26:15.700 --> 26:22.780] And so I was like having this like, you know, small success with selling supplies online,
[26:22.780 --> 26:27.500] breaking even barely making it selling my own jewelry designs, but because again, I
[26:27.500 --> 26:29.580] was more avant-garde with my jewelry.
[26:29.740 --> 26:34.260] So when I would make jewelry, I would make actually like stuff that people would put
[26:34.260 --> 26:36.540] in magazines or use in fashion shows.
[26:36.540 --> 26:40.100] And, you know, it's hard to push that stuff if you're not well connected.
[26:40.100 --> 26:45.780] And so I just, when I was doing the marketplaces, I was like, what if I put my charms
[26:45.780 --> 26:46.780] out?
[26:46.780 --> 26:50.660] Because people were always asking me, do you want to, can I switch that charm?
[26:50.660 --> 26:52.180] Or can you shorten that chain?
[26:52.180 --> 26:56.060] Or can you, and I was always willing to do it because I wanted to make the sale.
[26:56.140 --> 27:00.060] And I would notice that my fellow jewelry makers in the market, they were like, no,
[27:00.060 --> 27:05.500] you buy it like this, you know, and not, you know, not because there's like an ego that
[27:05.500 --> 27:06.620] comes with it, you know.
[27:06.620 --> 27:09.100] And like, I like to think I don't really have that kind of ego.
[27:09.100 --> 27:13.380] So I was totally willing to like alter this stuff in order to like make the sale.
[27:13.380 --> 27:15.420] And I think that's like where the marriage came.
[27:15.420 --> 27:20.820] It was like, let's take like my willingness to, you know, be flexible on the work that
[27:20.820 --> 27:27.620] I put into it and give them the chance to kind of like dictate what they want in it.
[27:27.620 --> 27:31.860] And actually the venue that I was doing it in, they wouldn't let me do it at first when
[27:31.860 --> 27:39.180] I applied because they were like, oh, this is, it exposes the, like what, what it costs
[27:39.180 --> 27:40.340] to make jewelry.
[27:40.340 --> 27:42.020] They did not let me do it.
[27:42.020 --> 27:45.100] And so I ended up doing it at another market.
[27:45.100 --> 27:48.460] And that like the first day I did it at that other market.
[27:48.460 --> 27:51.420] It was like instant, instantly successful.
[27:51.420 --> 27:54.580] I like, and I was all by myself doing it.
[27:54.580 --> 27:57.940] And it was so Mickey Mouse compared to the way that I do it now.
[27:57.940 --> 28:02.420] Like I had spools of pain and I was like cutting them and like assembling them on the
[28:02.420 --> 28:03.420] side.
[28:03.420 --> 28:06.580] And now everything's already pre made like a change of stuff and ready to go.
[28:06.580 --> 28:11.820] But I definitely was like, you know, figuring that out in the beginning.
[28:11.820 --> 28:16.540] And then as soon as I did well with the Brooklyn flea location or the other location,
[28:16.540 --> 28:19.660] or just simply as they kind of were like, all right, let's bring you in and do the
[28:19.660 --> 28:20.660] concept.
[28:20.660 --> 28:21.660] Yeah.
[28:21.660 --> 28:27.820] And that again, kind of like doing Etsy, it instantly, you know, became like an income
[28:27.820 --> 28:28.820] for me.
[28:28.820 --> 28:32.940] And like within a year of introducing the concept, you know, that's when we opened the
[28:32.940 --> 28:33.940] store.
[28:33.940 --> 28:34.940] What year was that?
[28:34.940 --> 28:35.940] That you opened the store?
[28:35.940 --> 28:36.940] Is that 2010?
[28:36.940 --> 28:37.940] Okay.
[28:37.940 --> 28:38.940] Yeah.
[28:38.940 --> 28:39.940] Yeah.
[28:39.940 --> 28:43.780] And again, I wasn't really setting out to open a retail store.
[28:43.780 --> 28:48.940] I wasn't really setting out to have that quote unquote business.
[28:48.940 --> 28:55.820] I was just like pursuing this thing that I love doing, you know, and I'm putting one
[28:55.820 --> 29:00.620] thing I really like pride myself in one of my accomplishments in life is like when I
[29:00.620 --> 29:03.820] moved to New York City, I did not have a job.
[29:03.820 --> 29:05.260] I worked for myself.
[29:05.260 --> 29:11.100] So I never actually worked for anyone just when I was living in New York.
[29:11.100 --> 29:12.100] Yeah.
[29:12.740 --> 29:13.420] That's amazing.
[29:13.420 --> 29:14.420] That's amazing.
[29:14.420 --> 29:23.140] Were there times when like whatever the circumstances just where you wanted to throw it all out and
[29:23.140 --> 29:24.140] just quit?
[29:24.140 --> 29:27.540] Like I mean, that's like once a week.
[29:27.540 --> 29:28.540] Yeah.
[29:28.540 --> 29:29.540] Yeah.
[29:29.540 --> 29:30.540] Yeah.
[29:30.540 --> 29:31.540] Yeah.
[29:31.540 --> 29:33.540] I mean, it's a rollercoaster entrepreneur.
[29:33.540 --> 29:37.380] I was getting anxiety, you know, like there's anxiety that comes with it.
[29:37.380 --> 29:41.660] And I've always had anxiety since I was, well, not always, but since I was like 16,
[29:41.660 --> 29:44.820] 17, like I also have, you know, dealt with that.
[29:44.820 --> 29:49.940] And so yeah, when the anxiety comes in and it can come out of nowhere and again, like
[29:49.940 --> 29:53.140] the triggers, right, there's triggers for that.
[29:53.140 --> 29:56.140] And you just, yeah, it's like this overwhelming sensation.
[29:56.140 --> 30:01.500] I mean, I have so much stuff, like so many beads and so many charms and like sometimes
[30:01.500 --> 30:06.420] when I'm going through it all and I'm just like, I'll die before I ever get to see everything
[30:06.420 --> 30:07.420] that I own.
[30:07.420 --> 30:12.220] You know, like I won't ever get to go through it all because it's just so much and it
[30:12.220 --> 30:15.220] just, I'll, yeah, that's so amazing.
[30:15.220 --> 30:20.620] I was going to say too that with the anxiety piece, I mean, that is a common comorbidity
[30:20.620 --> 30:26.660] of ADHD as well as depression, like those two are the most popular, my understanding.
[30:26.660 --> 30:32.860] But you know, there are others too, but with those and that, yeah, without, this is what
[30:32.860 --> 30:35.540] I've learned because I have anxiety and some depression as well.
[30:35.540 --> 30:41.820] Like, but what I've learned in this journey is that treating the ADHD is kind of the core.
[30:41.820 --> 30:50.820] In fact, I just, just had a guest, I just published an interview with Dr. Alan Graham and
[30:50.820 --> 30:52.340] he, he talked about that too.
[30:52.340 --> 30:58.620] We're like, you know, if you don't treat the ADHD or you're not aware of it for especially
[30:58.620 --> 31:02.980] for undiagnosed people, then you can keep treating the anxiety and depression all you like.
[31:03.220 --> 31:08.180] It's going to keep kind of, I mean, back without treating the ADHD as well or at least like
[31:08.180 --> 31:13.420] teaching people about the ADHD because that, that's one of those strange bedfellows that
[31:13.420 --> 31:14.620] comes along with it.
[31:14.620 --> 31:15.620] Yay.
[31:15.620 --> 31:16.620] I know.
[31:16.620 --> 31:23.460] And I definitely went through that in high school and, you know, I was seeing a therapist
[31:23.460 --> 31:28.020] and had depression was on antidepressants.
[31:28.020 --> 31:29.740] I had insomnia for two weeks.
[31:29.740 --> 31:35.180] Actually, the insomnia came from one of the ADHD drugs that was given to me.
[31:35.180 --> 31:41.220] I want to say it was the stratera one, but it was, I had, I took it the first day I was
[31:41.220 --> 31:43.020] fine.
[31:43.020 --> 31:44.780] And I was like, Oh, wow, this is great.
[31:44.780 --> 31:46.540] Like, I don't really feel it.
[31:46.540 --> 31:48.300] I just, you know, that's what I didn't want to do.
[31:48.300 --> 31:53.820] I didn't want to feel the speedy part of it, you know, like, and sometimes I, that would
[31:53.820 --> 31:55.860] be, I'd, you know, be clenching.
[31:55.860 --> 31:56.860] And.
[31:56.860 --> 31:57.860] Yeah.
[31:57.860 --> 31:58.860] Oh, wow, day one.
[31:58.860 --> 32:02.220] This is a relief from that because I think it was on Adderall for a little bit before
[32:02.220 --> 32:03.220] that.
[32:03.220 --> 32:09.380] And then when, then day two came, and I straight up did not sleep that night, and then
[32:09.380 --> 32:11.340] I did not sleep for almost two weeks.
[32:11.340 --> 32:14.380] Or if I did, I slept for like an hour at a time.
[32:14.380 --> 32:18.820] And like, that's when the depression actually started, you know, was like when you, when
[32:18.820 --> 32:24.380] you are up alone with yourself and your thoughts and like, there's nothing that you can
[32:24.380 --> 32:25.380] really do.
[32:25.380 --> 32:27.420] Were you talking to your doctor at the time?
[32:27.420 --> 32:28.420] Yeah.
[32:28.420 --> 32:29.420] Yeah.
[32:29.420 --> 32:35.140] Because of ADHD, I had a pediatrician until I was 22 years old, you know, and I had a great
[32:35.140 --> 32:39.900] pediatrician, actually, and he really, you know, he was, like you said, you, you were
[32:39.900 --> 32:43.780] trying different things and trying to find the right doses and the right, you know,
[32:43.780 --> 32:45.700] the right prescription for you.
[32:45.700 --> 32:52.340] And so that, that was a journey in itself, you know, was just trying to navigate what
[32:52.340 --> 32:58.180] was, you know, going into my system and how to deal with it.
[32:58.180 --> 33:02.780] Ultimately, they like ended up prescribing me Ambian.
[33:02.780 --> 33:07.660] I took an Ambian and I slept for like a day and a half or something.
[33:07.660 --> 33:09.860] So you needed it for sure.
[33:09.860 --> 33:10.860] Yeah.
[33:10.860 --> 33:18.100] And then when I woke up and I came out of it, I actually, like, it, like reset me.
[33:18.100 --> 33:22.300] It was really weird and I was like, I was, you know, I was doing better.
[33:22.300 --> 33:24.300] And therapy was really helpful.
[33:24.300 --> 33:25.300] Yeah.
[33:25.300 --> 33:32.340] So he, you know, he, um, and again, like we kind of just wound up back at Ritalin at the
[33:32.340 --> 33:40.060] end of it because it really was the one that like was the least like, I had TMJ too.
[33:40.060 --> 33:44.860] So like if I was clenching, I'm, you know, that like I didn't clench on Ritalin basically
[33:44.860 --> 33:47.260] or have trouble with things.
[33:47.260 --> 33:52.500] So you got me thinking about from, because I'm an entrepreneur too.
[33:52.500 --> 33:57.600] So like, you know, for, from running a business and sort of a DIY sort of mindset, which
[33:57.600 --> 34:02.700] is kind of what I've always approached everything I do with where you're, you know, there comes
[34:02.700 --> 34:07.740] a point when you do have to start hiring or outsourcing or what have you.
[34:07.740 --> 34:12.900] Tell me about like when, when did you realize I can't do this alone or I can't get to where
[34:12.900 --> 34:17.060] I need to get alone or oh my god, I'm not good at this because that's, that's one thing
[34:17.060 --> 34:18.340] that I tell people all the time.
[34:18.340 --> 34:23.980] That's one of the, the aha moments of my diagnosis and treatment is I've, and practicing
[34:23.980 --> 34:28.100] mindfulness and meditation where I've realized like, oh, wait a minute, I'm not created
[34:28.100 --> 34:29.180] everything.
[34:29.180 --> 34:34.020] And it wasn't that I was cocky and thought I was, but rather I was just moving a mile
[34:34.020 --> 34:40.900] a minute, uh, unknowingly that I just assumed, I didn't even assume I just had to do everything.
[34:40.900 --> 34:45.620] So there wasn't even time for me to stop and think, oh, that's why you're not doing a
[34:45.620 --> 34:50.060] good job at X because you're not good at X. You need help with this.
[34:50.060 --> 34:52.900] Tell me, tell me about that experience for you.
[34:52.900 --> 34:53.900] Yeah.
[34:53.900 --> 34:59.900] I mean, the first time I hired someone, it was, it was, this was before you could process
[34:59.900 --> 35:01.540] shipping at home, right?
[35:01.540 --> 35:05.900] So you actually had to go to the post office to, to have your stuff mailed.
[35:05.900 --> 35:06.900] Yeah.
[35:06.900 --> 35:09.380] And so I had just moved to Brooklyn.
[35:09.380 --> 35:15.420] I was living in Bushwick at the time, very colorful neighborhood, um, very loud.
[35:15.740 --> 35:22.020] Some what scary post office, and I had a panic attack in there actually.
[35:22.020 --> 35:23.020] Okay.
[35:23.020 --> 35:24.820] Blind was super duper long.
[35:24.820 --> 35:26.620] I showed up with 30 packages.
[35:26.620 --> 35:28.940] It took me 45 minutes to get to the front.
[35:28.940 --> 35:34.060] And as soon as I got there and threw my 30 packages on the table, the two other windows
[35:34.060 --> 35:39.300] closed and it was just like me and this one guy, 30 packages and 30, 20 people behind
[35:39.300 --> 35:40.300] me.
[35:40.300 --> 35:41.300] Yeah.
[35:41.300 --> 35:45.100] And they all just were like, you know, like throwing their arms up in the air and
[35:45.100 --> 35:49.420] I like started getting tunnel vision and my name is Vietnam.
[35:49.420 --> 35:53.740] And the post office guy was like, flick to his finger in front of my face.
[35:53.740 --> 35:56.300] And he's like, Hey, hey, I'm right here.
[35:56.300 --> 36:02.340] Just focus on this and stay with me like he's a spiral.
[36:02.340 --> 36:06.500] And he did it, brought me back and he's like, someone's coming back.
[36:06.500 --> 36:11.300] And I, but in that, in that situation, I was like, I can't do this.
[36:11.300 --> 36:16.740] Like I need, I'm hiring a New Yorker to come and wait in this line for me because this
[36:16.740 --> 36:19.140] is just like too stressful.
[36:19.140 --> 36:20.140] And so I did.
[36:20.140 --> 36:21.980] I hired a young lady, Verne.
[36:21.980 --> 36:24.020] She was 19 years old at the time.
[36:24.020 --> 36:27.860] She's originally from Barbados, but you know, lived in New York for, oh, gosh, she killed
[36:27.860 --> 36:28.860] me not Barbados.
[36:28.860 --> 36:29.860] Trinidad.
[36:29.860 --> 36:30.860] Trinidad.
[36:30.860 --> 36:31.860] Trinidad.
[36:31.860 --> 36:32.860] Yeah.
[36:32.860 --> 36:36.500] And she's, she stayed with me for over 10 years actually.
[36:36.500 --> 36:39.860] She was my first employee and she's still very good friend of mine.
[36:39.860 --> 36:40.860] Yeah.
[36:41.020 --> 36:48.420] So that was my first hire and I didn't really hire again until I introduced the, um,
[36:48.420 --> 36:51.820] the business concept of the charm jewelry thing.
[36:51.820 --> 36:58.460] So like, um, once I was doing the DIY or like you design it, um, I did have to have some
[36:58.460 --> 37:02.420] people help me with that just because again, you can't be ringing people up and making
[37:02.420 --> 37:03.940] stuff at the same time.
[37:03.940 --> 37:04.940] Yeah.
[37:04.940 --> 37:10.340] So you need, you know, someone to do the ringing up and someone to do the, you know, the,
[37:10.340 --> 37:16.300] the making and, um, I, you know, I only had a couple employees the first couple of years
[37:16.300 --> 37:21.300] of being open, but then when I opened the brick and mortar store, you know, I, I had
[37:21.300 --> 37:29.540] to go from like two employees to five employees and heek, having my shop and my two locations
[37:29.540 --> 37:35.260] in New York, I would have sometimes 16 employees at a time.
[37:35.260 --> 37:41.020] And so, you know, with that, you definitely need like good management to help with that.
[37:41.020 --> 37:46.140] And I, I did, you know, it takes time to get to that place and to find the right person.
[37:46.140 --> 37:50.660] And not, and not just the right person, but the like, the person who's going to put up
[37:50.660 --> 37:53.140] with you in your ADHD, you know?
[37:53.140 --> 37:54.140] Yeah.
[37:54.140 --> 37:55.140] Yeah.
[37:55.140 --> 38:01.660] So yeah, you know, I've got a great, I, I still have the same person who runs everything
[38:01.660 --> 38:06.380] in New York City that I've had for 10 plus years.
[38:06.380 --> 38:13.660] And she's, she's amazing and allows for me to, you know, be more permanent here.
[38:13.660 --> 38:19.980] In fact, like, after COVID, we closed everything down in New York for like a year and a half.
[38:19.980 --> 38:24.540] And when we reopened, I licensed the brand to her.
[38:24.540 --> 38:32.940] So the woman, Adrienne, who was the manager of my store, when I wasn't in New York, you
[38:32.940 --> 38:34.260] know, she lost her job.
[38:34.260 --> 38:38.660] Her whole career just like went into thin air when we closed the stores.
[38:38.660 --> 38:45.660] And so, you know, she saved up money and kind of went out and joined the Kelsey market
[38:45.660 --> 38:50.620] thing that we were doing before and started it on her own, you know, but as Brooklyn
[38:50.620 --> 38:51.620] Charm.
[38:52.220 --> 38:52.820] So it's great.
[38:52.820 --> 38:58.300] Like I have, you know, she's technically like, you know, a licensee, but, you know, I,
[38:58.300 --> 39:03.660] I look at her more as a partner, just because, you know, we make a lot of joint decisions
[39:03.660 --> 39:04.660] together.
[39:04.660 --> 39:11.580] And, you know, because she's representing the brand Brooklyn in Brooklyn, you know, you
[39:11.580 --> 39:15.700] know, I always say if it weren't for her, I don't even know if I would be Brooklyn
[39:15.700 --> 39:20.740] Charm anymore because, you know, we weren't going to move back to New York.
[39:20.740 --> 39:28.940] You know, so we, I'm like eternally grateful to have someone like Adrienne in my life.
[39:28.940 --> 39:33.340] And I, I always joke around like I hope I find my Adrienne here in California.
[39:33.340 --> 39:34.340] Yeah.
[39:34.340 --> 39:35.340] Yeah.
[39:35.340 --> 39:36.340] Well, I mean, that's part of it, right?
[39:36.340 --> 39:40.540] Because I was just having this conversation with someone just yesterday, actually, a small
[39:40.540 --> 39:47.380] group about outsourcing some work and, and realizing, like part of what's stopped me
[39:47.380 --> 39:52.100] from doing that has been, well, first I'm a perfectionist.
[39:52.100 --> 39:53.100] So there's that.
[39:53.100 --> 39:58.620] But besides that, it's, for me, it's more like a need for someone to help me with my social
[39:58.620 --> 40:04.220] media and help me with my, like, some, maybe some admin stuff and some, you know, mainly
[40:04.220 --> 40:05.220] digital stuff.
[40:05.420 --> 40:12.900] But a lot of times, you know, folks are, you don't know who is best for this.
[40:12.900 --> 40:16.060] And there's a lot of online services and things where you can hire people.
[40:16.060 --> 40:20.660] But like, I feel it's sort of like a CRM setting up a CRM where like I don't want to like
[40:20.660 --> 40:24.660] spend all this time teaching someone how to do everything.
[40:24.660 --> 40:26.260] And then they don't do a good job.
[40:26.260 --> 40:30.060] And then I've got to rinse and repeat it all over again to find someone else and all
[40:30.060 --> 40:34.780] that time wasted and money wasted when I should be doing it myself.
[40:34.780 --> 40:35.780] Yeah.
[40:35.780 --> 40:37.020] I've been there for sure.
[40:37.020 --> 40:40.380] Tell me about like your strengths as far as obviously you're very creative and you're
[40:40.380 --> 40:44.140] obviously a great, you know, talented jeweler.
[40:44.140 --> 40:48.980] But besides that, as far as like running a business goes, what are the areas that you're
[40:48.980 --> 40:53.340] best at or weakest at as far as like all these things?
[40:53.340 --> 41:00.260] Because I guess you have to understand your strengths well enough on, you know, there's
[41:00.260 --> 41:08.700] a great book, the EMF manifesto or not manifesto, but EMF, it's mainly about, you know, it's
[41:08.700 --> 41:10.100] about entrepreneurship.
[41:10.100 --> 41:15.780] And in it, I only remember this like, it's a fictitious story in it, but it's like one
[41:15.780 --> 41:20.060] that resonates with so many people, which is, and I've heard about, I've heard others
[41:20.060 --> 41:21.540] share it.
[41:21.540 --> 41:26.980] Lots of entrepreneurs say this basically the same story, which is, a woman loves baking
[41:26.980 --> 41:27.980] cupcakes.
[41:27.980 --> 41:32.540] You know, start selling cupcakes from her house, then she starts similar to what you're
[41:32.540 --> 41:33.540] doing.
[41:33.540 --> 41:37.260] And then she opens a bakery and next thing she knows, like she's so successful that she's
[41:37.260 --> 41:42.540] suddenly managing people only and the books and all that stuff.
[41:42.540 --> 41:48.660] And she's so taxed with that and recruiting and replacing and all that stuff that she's
[41:48.660 --> 41:55.180] lost the, the, her any time to actually bake and create the stuff that she's most passionate
[41:55.180 --> 41:56.180] about.
[41:56.180 --> 42:00.780] And so she's miserable because now all she's doing is managing people, which is, you know,
[42:00.780 --> 42:05.300] a great talent to have for some, but does that resonate with you?
[42:05.300 --> 42:06.300] Yeah.
[42:06.300 --> 42:07.300] 100%.
[42:07.300 --> 42:13.980] I know, I don't, yeah, I don't particularly enjoy managing people.
[42:13.980 --> 42:18.700] I'm not saying that I'm not good at it, you know, I just, it is probably the hardest
[42:18.700 --> 42:26.820] part of the job actually is because you're, you're the income, you know, for these, these
[42:26.820 --> 42:33.860] people and you are responsible for their livelihood in a way, you know, not everybody holds that
[42:33.860 --> 42:39.260] over you, but people certainly do, you know, and I would say what am I greatest strengths
[42:39.260 --> 42:45.580] is also my greatest weakness, which is, you know, I want, I want to be liked, you know,
[42:45.580 --> 42:53.460] I want, yeah, and not just by my staff, by everyone, you know, and if you want everyone
[42:53.460 --> 42:58.780] to like you, then what can happen is you can get walked all over, you know, and so, and
[42:58.780 --> 43:06.100] I'm an empath as well, you know, so those are, you know, great traits to have as a person
[43:06.100 --> 43:13.380] and a business woman, but it can also be taken advantage of, you know, and so I've,
[43:13.380 --> 43:18.860] I think that that has been a struggle for me because I don't feel like I'm the kind
[43:18.860 --> 43:24.900] of person that takes advantage of people, it's never really been my trait, I will lean
[43:24.900 --> 43:30.900] into people when I need help and I will be open and honest about that, you know, again,
[43:30.900 --> 43:39.020] like I don't have too big of an ego to admit when I need help, you know, but I think that
[43:39.020 --> 43:43.660] especially with this newer generation too, you know, we're like, now I'm in, I'm the
[43:43.660 --> 43:50.580] like kind of older, you know, in the, in the game and I'm watching these younger, you
[43:50.580 --> 43:56.060] know, 20, early 20 something year old sort of step into the professional world, I see
[43:56.060 --> 44:03.100] a lot of them, me and them actually just in terms of like not liking being told what
[44:03.100 --> 44:08.820] to do, you know, or being told to do something they don't really feel like doing.
[44:08.820 --> 44:13.300] And I have, I have definitely been that person where I'm like, oh, you want me to do that,
[44:13.300 --> 44:17.740] you know, and then I get done to me and I'm like, why do you have to act like that, you
[44:17.740 --> 44:25.860] know, or so I'm always like just, it's important for me, like when I task people or work with
[44:25.860 --> 44:31.260] people to just, you know, be kind when I'm asking that.
[44:31.260 --> 44:36.500] And maybe I'm not always kind, maybe I'm a little bit blunt, you know, because I'm
[44:36.500 --> 44:41.940] in business mode and I'm like, like when I go to work, I am there to work.
[44:41.940 --> 44:45.020] I am not hang out, I am not there to socialize.
[44:45.020 --> 44:50.740] Like I will talk and will like, you know, do, do any kind of conversation that most people
[44:50.740 --> 44:58.340] do, but like, I am doing it while I'm working, you know, and so that I expect out of, you
[44:58.340 --> 45:03.780] know, my staff as well is like, if you're going to come to work, I don't care if you talk,
[45:03.780 --> 45:06.900] but like, make sure you're staying productive while you talk, you know.
[45:06.900 --> 45:07.900] Yeah, 90%.
[45:07.900 --> 45:08.900] Yeah.
[45:08.900 --> 45:15.940] I find the people pleasing and empath sort of aspects intriguing and I don't know with
[45:15.940 --> 45:25.260] any sort of science study, you know, I, like what I do know is that, like the study,
[45:25.260 --> 45:30.540] I think the, I think it's something to the effect of like a 10, a 10 year old with ADHD
[45:30.540 --> 45:34.460] or ADD, same, same difference these days, I guess, everything.
[45:34.460 --> 45:35.460] It's just ADHD.
[45:35.460 --> 45:36.460] It's a new name.
[45:36.460 --> 45:42.500] But yeah, so, but a 10 year old with ADD or ADHD, whatever you want to call it, has received
[45:42.500 --> 45:50.980] something like 20,000 negative feedback from like teachers and parents and, you know,
[45:50.980 --> 45:54.140] other adults by the time they're 10 years old.
[45:54.140 --> 45:58.780] So they've heard, they've heard way more negative feedback.
[45:58.780 --> 46:06.100] In addition, you know, in our sort of, or I'm 53, but in my generation, at least, my parents
[46:06.100 --> 46:12.340] were not diagnosed, but we do know that it's something like 75 or 80% chances, or that
[46:12.340 --> 46:16.900] it's almost as heritable as height, meaning that like one or both of your parents quite
[46:16.900 --> 46:20.900] likely has ADHD as well if you do.
[46:20.900 --> 46:27.900] So, but with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, that can lead to, you know, difficult people
[46:27.900 --> 46:32.260] sometimes for whatever reasons with, you know, whether it's addictions or impulsivity
[46:32.260 --> 46:33.660] or whatever.
[46:33.660 --> 46:38.140] So therefore, and this is where, like, I don't know statistically or anything, but I feel
[46:38.140 --> 46:48.260] like, I do know that, that we, Y squirrels or ADHDers do tend to experience more trauma as
[46:48.260 --> 46:49.260] children.
[46:49.260 --> 46:50.260] Yeah.
[46:50.260 --> 46:57.420] And certainly I did as well, but I also think that this is the part, this is the part
[46:57.420 --> 47:03.620] where my theory comes in, which I'm curious about, I have learned through therapy that
[47:03.620 --> 47:09.580] I became a people pleaser in part because of the trauma that I had as a kid.
[47:09.580 --> 47:15.660] And so that kind of made me realize that if David's a good boy, and I'm pleasing everybody,
[47:15.660 --> 47:20.900] then I'll get ahead and I don't like drama, I don't like conflict, I'm a pacifist,
[47:20.900 --> 47:22.980] like, you know, all these things.
[47:22.980 --> 47:27.420] And so, but it makes, and you were saying, you know, it's, and I'm very empathetic as
[47:27.420 --> 47:28.420] well.
[47:28.420 --> 47:30.740] So you were saying something similar there and a little one, and I, you made me think
[47:30.740 --> 47:35.860] of it when you had this panic attack, where you have like 20, 30 people upset with you
[47:35.860 --> 47:38.780] behind you, and you have this panic attack in a moment.
[47:38.780 --> 47:44.180] And maybe as somebody who's a, you mentioned you're a people pleaser, maybe in that moment,
[47:44.180 --> 47:47.580] the reason why you had that panic attack was because you want to please, you don't want
[47:47.580 --> 47:48.580] people upset with you.
[47:48.580 --> 47:50.660] And now you've got 20 or 30 of them.
[47:50.660 --> 47:55.900] And that, to me, not being a psychologist or psychiatrist or doctor would, I mean, just
[47:55.900 --> 48:00.620] my spidey sense tells me that, that would make sense to trigger such a bad for all of
[48:00.620 --> 48:05.820] them, because I, myself, and now they're really in the ringer, because they got one person
[48:05.820 --> 48:06.820] with 30 packages.
[48:06.820 --> 48:07.820] Yeah.
[48:07.820 --> 48:08.820] Yeah.
[48:08.820 --> 48:14.340] And then all the focuses on me, you know, like, thank goodness, you know, and like, I used
[48:14.420 --> 48:20.740] when I was a kid, I wanted to be like an actress and, you know, early 90s, like Hollywood,
[48:20.740 --> 48:25.180] there was like such a fantastical, like, you know, being about it.
[48:25.180 --> 48:29.780] And I think back to it now, and I'm like, glad that never happened, because I could never,
[48:29.780 --> 48:37.100] ever handle the, the, the negative part of it, you know, or the, like the bad ass or
[48:37.100 --> 48:42.380] the, you know, like, yeah, like when I'm in trouble, one of the worst feelings on the
[48:42.380 --> 48:43.380] planet.
[48:43.380 --> 48:47.740] And you're, when you feel like you're in trouble or you feel like you've upset someone,
[48:47.740 --> 48:56.420] and I, I get, I do, I get serious, like debilitating anxiety when I feel like I'm in trouble,
[48:56.420 --> 49:04.700] you know, and therefore I hardly ever get in trouble, you know, in high school, I would
[49:04.700 --> 49:07.940] get in trouble in like a party way, and I never really felt bad about that.
[49:07.940 --> 49:13.340] I mean, again, in trouble with hurting someone's feelings or upsetting them or like rubbing
[49:13.380 --> 49:18.300] them the wrong way, even if you don't like the person, I don't even want the people
[49:18.300 --> 49:24.580] I don't like to feel like a negative impact from me, because I don't know their story.
[49:24.580 --> 49:28.820] I don't know why they're acting like a jerk to me, you know, like, yeah, yeah.
[49:28.820 --> 49:33.900] So, you know, I just, I, you know, I just, I do, I want to get along with everyone.
[49:33.900 --> 49:40.340] It doesn't mean I do, you know, and being a business owner and a boss, you're going
[49:40.340 --> 49:46.100] to get people that are going to come in that are not going to agree with your style of
[49:46.100 --> 49:50.460] management, you know, and, and then you'll get people who do agree, you know, and the
[49:50.460 --> 49:55.260] people that do agree are usually the ones that stick around, and the ones that don't agree,
[49:55.260 --> 50:00.180] they either drag you through hell for who knows how long until they quit or you have to
[50:00.180 --> 50:05.740] fire them, or they don't last very long, and they just like move on to the next thing.
[50:05.740 --> 50:06.740] I love it.
[50:06.740 --> 50:07.740] Yeah.
[50:07.740 --> 50:08.740] Yeah.
[50:08.900 --> 50:10.060] And I'm watching the time here.
[50:10.060 --> 50:14.700] I know we're, we're all clapping up, but if you could design a charm or jewelry that
[50:14.700 --> 50:18.380] captures ADHD in a fun and powering way, what would it look like?
[50:19.140 --> 50:24.980] God, it would probably be like a spiral within a bursting sun.
[50:26.060 --> 50:26.740] I love that.
[50:27.020 --> 50:30.100] Well, you like didn't miss a beat there.
[50:30.340 --> 50:31.860] Have you been thinking about this already?
[50:31.860 --> 50:34.220] Yeah, you totally, I did not.
[50:34.220 --> 50:35.460] I never thought about that.
[50:35.460 --> 50:37.780] And I cannot believe I came up with that so quickly.
[50:37.780 --> 50:43.620] But like, and the spiral is that like, you're, there's this, I don't know if you listen
[50:43.620 --> 50:46.660] to tool at all, but I'm like a big tool fan.
[50:46.660 --> 50:48.620] It's all the my love of blues in 1991.
[50:48.620 --> 50:49.140] Yeah.
[50:49.140 --> 50:49.660] Oh my God.
[50:49.660 --> 50:50.540] On the backstage.
[50:50.780 --> 50:53.460] I've seen them like four times in a perfect circle.
[50:53.460 --> 50:59.820] But like, you know, spiral out, spiraling, like third eye, just, you know, because there's
[50:59.820 --> 51:03.140] a spiraling out, and then there's a finding your center as well.
[51:03.420 --> 51:07.340] And there's been so many moments in my life where I feel like I'm going to explode.
[51:07.940 --> 51:15.060] But I'm, I'm finding a way to sort of like circle back into my own, my own thoughts that
[51:15.060 --> 51:17.180] don't make me explode, you know?
[51:17.180 --> 51:21.300] So it's like, you might be exploding on the outside, but it's because we're working
[51:21.300 --> 51:26.340] on the inside, trying, and that's, you know, that goes back to why we interrupt people
[51:26.340 --> 51:32.980] sometimes or we, you know, get, um, lost track of our tasks and things like that.
[51:32.980 --> 51:37.180] So it's just, it's constantly moving, you know, it's like, even
[51:37.180 --> 51:42.140] today, this morning, I woke up at 4.30 in the morning and I could not go back to sleep.
[51:42.140 --> 51:45.540] And I, I was like thinking of a spiral.
[51:45.540 --> 51:47.220] So I wake up that way too.
[51:47.220 --> 51:51.700] I'm like, it drives my wife crazy because I'll wake out like, hey, let's talk.
[51:51.700 --> 51:53.860] I'm like, yeah, leave me alone.
[51:53.860 --> 51:55.420] I just woke up.
[51:55.900 --> 51:57.660] I can't talk to you for at least an hour.
[51:59.140 --> 52:00.060] And you can play more.
[52:00.060 --> 52:01.460] And then you said the sun, right?
[52:01.460 --> 52:06.940] Or, yeah, like a burst or a spark or something that is just like, you know,
[52:08.140 --> 52:13.740] it doesn't have to be even like symmetrical, you know, just, uh, and, you know,
[52:13.740 --> 52:18.740] there's an explosion happening, but there's a time to inner peace, you know,
[52:18.740 --> 52:20.100] I love it. I love it.
[52:20.100 --> 52:22.100] This has been so much fun, Tracy.
[52:22.100 --> 52:23.980] How can people get ahold of you?
[52:23.980 --> 52:25.780] Learn more about what you do.
[52:25.780 --> 52:27.460] Like, where's the best place for that in the go?
[52:27.820 --> 52:32.340] Uh, well, uh, Instagram and TikTok is, you know, where we're very active, uh,
[52:32.340 --> 52:38.900] through our Brooklyn Charm account, uh, we also website where we do jewelry making
[52:38.900 --> 52:42.300] supplies and customize charm jewelry online.
[52:42.300 --> 52:48.020] So, um, you can always, you know, have something custom made on the internet.
[52:48.020 --> 52:50.460] You don't have to be there in person to do it.
[52:50.540 --> 52:54.580] I would say that we have the largest selection of charms of any custom charm
[52:54.580 --> 52:57.900] by you'll ever find on an in person.
[52:58.220 --> 52:59.700] Yeah, it's, it's amazing.
[52:59.740 --> 53:00.700] It's amazing work.
[53:00.700 --> 53:02.380] I mean, yeah, no, I love it.
[53:02.380 --> 53:04.220] Yeah, this is honestly, it's been amazing.
[53:04.220 --> 53:05.740] So very inspiring.
[53:05.740 --> 53:06.300] So thanks.
[53:06.300 --> 53:12.700] Yeah, and it's fun to talk to someone else who, you know, has an understanding of how
[53:12.700 --> 53:16.020] this narrow divergent brain works.
[53:19.100 --> 53:21.420] Thanks for tuning in to Why Squirrels.
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