PODCAST. ADHD College & Career Strategies and more with Berkeley Gardner.

Strategies for Managing ADHD: Insights from an Expert ADHD Coach

In this episode of Wise Squirrels, we dive into an insightful conversation with ADHD Coach Berkeley Gardner, an experienced coach who has been working with adults and college students dealing with ADHD for over 25 years. Berkeley shares valuable strategies, tips, and perspectives on effectively managing ADHD, from understanding neurodiversity to coping with time blindness and sensory feedback.

Key Tips for Adults with ADHD:

1. Redefining “Neurotypical”:

   • Berkeley challenges the term "neurotypical" and emphasizes the need for respecting different ways of thinking and processing.

   • Acknowledging neurodiversity can lead to greater self-awareness and understanding of ADHD as a neurological difference, not a character flaw.

2. Managing Time Blindness:

   • Time blindness is a common challenge for individuals with ADHD, leading to difficulties estimating time and staying on track.

   • Berkeley suggests using tools like the Time Timer, analog clocks, or even gamification to create a better sense of time passage.

   • Setting realistic time estimates for tasks and experimenting with timing to improve accuracy is important.

3. Sensory Feedback and Hyperactivity:

   • Hyperactivity in adults with ADHD may manifest differently, often internally or through subtle habits like tapping, chewing, or stimming.

   • Sensory feedback-seeking behaviors, such as tapping, can help engage the brain and improve focus.

   • Strategies like using tactile strips or engaging in sensory-friendly activities can provide the needed feedback without distracting others.

4. Overcoming Procrastination and Enhancing Focus:

   • Berkeley emphasizes the power of setting intentions and maintaining a positive inner dialogue to combat procrastination.

   • Acknowledging automatic neurological reactions while reaffirming values and goals can help overcome self-criticism.

   • Strategies like segmenting tasks, utilizing music or background noise, and incorporating gamified elements can enhance focus and productivity.

5. The Impact of ADHD on Learning and Study Habits:

   • Berkeley highlights the challenges faced by students with ADHD, such as difficulty with organization, time management, and studying.

   • Effective study techniques for individuals with ADHD, including Cornell note-taking, incorporating visual aids, and leveraging audio resources while reading.

   • Embracing personalized learning styles and experimenting with strategies to find what works best for each individual.

Individuals with ADHD can lead more fulfilling and productive lives.

Berkeley Gardner's insights provide a deeper understanding of ADHD as a unique neurodiversity and offer practical strategies to navigate challenges. By embracing individual strengths, finding sensory feedback solutions, and maintaining a positive inner dialogue, individuals with ADHD can lead more fulfilling and productive lives. She recommends reading The ADHD Advantage: What You Thought Was a Diagnosis May Be Your Greatest Strength by Dale Archer.

Stay tuned for more informative episodes on Wise Squirrels, where we explore various topics related to personal growth, productivity, and well-being.

Contact Berkeley Gardner at BerkeleyGardnerCoaching.com.

Disclaimer: This episode provides general information and does not substitute for professional advice. Consult a qualified healthcare professional for personalized guidance.

Leave us an audio comment or question for an upcoming episode of our ADHD podcast for adults who are late-diagnosed.

• Transcript

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 0:00

  I do yeah, I have, my husband has it, and my son has it. We all have different flavors of it. But I don't think I really knew I had it. I just knew things were a little different for me. So um, yeah, so my son, Luke was diagnosed when he was five, he was, you know, the typical, incredibly hyperactive child and kindergarten. And so the time you know, when you have a young child who is having trouble behaving at first, as a parent, you think, oh, gosh, you know, I'm having trouble parenting and managing the situation. We need to get him some help. And then ultimately, once he was diagnosed, and we decided which way to go as far as treatment, was, that turned into more of he feels so terrible about himself, because he can't control like he'll he'll do something without thinking, and then get in trouble for it and be surprised that he's in trouble. Because he didn't intend to do to do this. And so yeah, and so it was, it's been a long, long road. He's doing great now, but I think he will forever have his different challenges, at least academically, because everyone has different challenges, right? Some people, it's organization, some people, it's time, man. It's all it's all of the above time management. But for him, I think it's mostly school.

  Dave Delaney 1:22

  And for you, you because you were teaching in middle school, and you did a little high school as well. Tell me a little bit about that experience and how that worked for you, and how that kind of led you to do what you're doing now.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 1:35

  Yeah. So yeah, so my background, I taught in middle school, and then took some time off when I had my children, and then went back and was working one on one with individuals, more or less like an academic coach. And I realized that the kids who had ADHD, every session was just basically putting out the fire, whatever was the most urgent what they had to attend to, were content based. And I realized that these kids needed more, they needed more coaching, they needed more support outside of the academic realm. And so that's when I left and spent a couple of years getting certified as an ADHD coach, and then and then realize my love was really more for working with college students and adults, because they have more of the buy in. Because when the kids are younger, they don't really. I mean, they're not dying to work on things because they, it's not as interesting,

  Dave Delaney 2:30

  right? Sure, sure. What are some of the struggles that you're seeing in college? Yeah, as it pertains to ADHD. Because, you know, on my last, or one of the last episode, I spoke with Peter Shankman, he's, he's, you know, love Peter. Yeah, Peter is awesome. And, you know, he spoke sort of, not bashing, but kind of poorly about the education system. And I think a lot of people, you know, I'm married to a teacher, so I have to tread lightly here. But I mean, you know, schools were designed. I mean, he was talking about, like classroom layout of desks and how that was laid out that way, because back in the day, they didn't have enough classrooms, for all the kids. So they were positioned that way. But now we have much bigger schools in different formats, but that classroom kind of setting of desk after desk after desk in a row and having to sit at the desk and not move, that kind of thing has has remained and, you know, to some extent, possibly in some colleges as well. So yeah, what are what are some of those challenges you're seeing?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 3:37

  Yeah, no, he's right. I mean, schools are not designed for the ADHD brain. And, you know, definitely hands on more experiential learning is definitely better for someone with ADHD. But what I see pervasively with all of my students that I work with is, number one is navigating the student portal. So whether it's Blackboard or Moodle, or canvas or whatever they're using, it's knowing they're all digital natives, but it's, it's knowing kind of what is due when and all the professors, no one is consistent. So one professor might put their syllabus under the syllabus tab, and another one might put it in a folder named files, and they have to tab down down down down to figure out where things are. And for the ADHD, brain working memory is not strong. So it's so tedious for them to find what they need, that they get discouraged or frustrated. They might not be aware of this. And so then they just kind of avoid and they kind of wing it and then are surprised Oh, I didn't know this was due. Even though the teacher really tried hard to, to put it out there. So they could find

  Dave Delaney 4:45

  out. That makes a lot of sense. And that actually resonates with me as well with my kids in their school because yeah, it's the same thing. It's there's an app and then there's a website and then there's Google classroom or Google Docs and, and yeah, not all the teachers It's almost it almost seems to me that the problem is that the teachers are not all using the system consistently, like, and so because there's all these different ways, or software's or platforms, or what have you, that, you know, regardless of who the student is even, you know, neurotypical student could also find that challenging as well, I'm sure.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 5:23

  Oh, hands down. Absolutely. And so you've gotten, you've got different ages of for teachers, right. So you've got the, the definitely non digital natives who are, you know, let's just say aging out of teaching, and they don't want it, they don't want to use it at all. So they do the bare minimum, and then you've got kind of across the board. So due to the lack of consistency, makes it really tough for these kids. And then the other thing is just kind of the, the estimation of time, right? So they might, they might think they think things take longer than they do. So they avoid and then they feel terrible about themselves when it only took 10 minutes, or are they you know, a project, that's the time horizon is really far out, like a big project might be due in a couple of months. They, because we don't feel that pressure and that urgency, then we procrastinate as a strategy to give ourselves that, you know, dopamine to get it going. And so it's harder for them to, to manage and plan and

  Dave Delaney 6:27

  get it going. Yeah, and that's the same. I mean, you know, that's the same, whether it's a college report, or whether, you know, obviously, with an emphasis for why squirrels with, you know, for late diagnosed adults, like myself, you know, but it's the same thing at work, you have projects that are coming up soon, and you have ones that are later. And it's the same sort of idea of like, kind of procrastinating on that late thing, because, you know, it's way months away, as he said, like, a couple months, let's say, do you have like specific strategies that that seem to work? Well, I know, everybody, you know, folks with ADHD, everybody's different and operate differently, but there are some commonalities. Do you have you found strategies that helped to work with with that kind of threat of procrastinating?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 7:16

  Yeah, that I think accountability with another individual is really, really helpful for most people. But this becomes like this tricky, you know, tightrope to walk. Because if you, let's just say you communicated with your manager and said, Hey, can you give me you know, some arbitrary deadlines? Or can we kind of break it down into smaller pieces, so I can know what to turn in when, because it'll help me stay motivated. You know, some managers get that and they're willing to help. And then others, you know, might see it as a sign of weakness, or apathy or laziness. And, and so as far as strategies go, definitely accountability with other people. There's a great app called Focus mate, which helps with body doubling, but just like co working somebody mirroring what you're doing that that really helps. Yeah, and, you know, there's obviously a million different apps for time management. And, but I think the key also for someone with ADHD is knowing that what you might try that works now, whether it's a planner, or an app, or whatever it may be, your brain eventually is going to become bored with that, and you're going to need to change it up. And it doesn't mean that you fail, that doesn't mean that you're, you know, you know, oh, gosh, I've done it. Again, I'm not being consistent, we are consistently inconsistent. And that's okay. Because our brain always needs to change and novelty and, and in some areas of our life, it's a huge strength,

  Dave Delaney 8:49

  you know, and I'm kind of thinking about it in my own my own way too, because yeah, I do get bored of, you know, and it's especially annoying for myself, because we're like with a like a CRM, like a customer relationship management software. You know, it takes a lot of time to get a CRM configured the way you want it. And then when you get bored of that, it's or if you stop using it, then it just completely fails. And to then pick it up and start all over again with another CRM. It's like, it's kind of the reason why I kind of just abandoned CRM, so altogether, one thing I was speaking with another person about a doctor, we were talking about the the struggles with the supply of medical of medication. And one thing that is talking back to college a little bit is my understanding. My understanding is that a lot of college kids are getting their hands on whatever, you know, the drug is Adderall or what have you. And initially, I always kind of thought of this, as you know, they're getting their hands on it because it's a party drug or it helps them stay up late, you know, studying and things like that. But I think my understanding from from a couple of different discussions with folks is that part of the problem is that a lot of college kids haven't been done who have ADHD haven't been diagnosed. And then because they get their hands on these illegal drugs, illegal meaning illegally, they're getting their hands on it without a prescription. They try it. And for those who do have ADHD, whoa, like it actually works. And when in reality, had they been diagnose and prescribe something that, you know, it could have, it could have helped a whole lot sooner and not affected the supply? Do you have any, any thoughts on that?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 10:56

  Yeah, I mean, it definitely is a pervasive problem. Like when my son went to college, I was like you have is a felony if you share, you know, if you give any of your friends, any of the any of this medication, the kids who have ADHD typically don't want to take the meds because they feel muted, even though it helps them they just the, what I found is they don't really love to have to take the meds, but those who, you know, and I don't know if I can speak if I have actually, you know, facts are research based behind the kids who are undiagnosed, but taking the meds. I think that for for a lot of them, it's you know, they're under a huge amount of pressure. And so the stress than they take your friends, medication, they can knock out a paper, you know, quickly and they think it's all magic. But yeah, yeah, there's a huge risks with that, as well, as you know, yeah.

  Dave Delaney 11:49

  What are some of the other struggles that you see with college aged folks in college life and maybe also preparing for graduation? And what what happens next, career wise and paying those student loans? God forbid?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 12:04

  I think, Yeah, seriously, I think, you know, some, there's gonna be a direct answer. But a lot of college students, when they decide to major they go with, Okay, what's going to make me the most money or what's going to, you know, don't typically not typically, they don't always go with what's interesting to them. And they and that's like, the, my biggest encouragement would be for any kid, whatever you're studying, make sure that it's something that you're interested in, or that kid that has changed novelty within it, look at where your strengths lie, look at what because if you don't have, if you're not interested, you're going into finance, or accounting or whatever it is. And just because you think it'll help you, and you'll make money, but you're not, you know, incredibly interested in it, it's going to be really hard down the road. And so as far as planning ahead, you know, they are not, we are not good at foreseeing what's coming down the pipe. And so other people will tell us, you know, you might wanna think about this, might wanna think about that. But we're very much one gift is we're very much sometimes in the moment, right? I'm here I'm with, and so thinking ahead. So really using the resources on campus, the Career Center, talking to people out in the world, like hopping on LinkedIn reaching out to people said, Hey, can I talk to you for five minutes about what you do? What do you like about what you know what's hard about it? You know, I always advise that, and then as far as other struggles, it can be so many things, it's, you know, it's balancing the social and the academic. A lot of my clients really dislike reading, because working, as I said, about working memory, you know, you read a couple of lines. And let's say you've read like four sentences, and then all of a sudden, you forgot what the first sentence was about. And you have to kind of like a back and forth. And so. So I always say, you know, using whatever technology, if you can listen to it aloud, if you can speed it up, because our brains sometimes want to want to hear the words faster. So we don't lose our focus. And it's interesting, I talked to someone earlier today, a client and he was saying he was an adult. And he was saying he had like five different monitors. So it's kind of like old school like us, we can have all these papers out on our desk, we could, so rather than flipping back and forth, we can kind of see them all in front of us. And that was that was helpful to have to have not to have to tab back and forth. But to have it all readily in front of him is a good strategy.

  Dave Delaney 14:41

  Yeah, yeah. When it comes to reading. Do you have any tips on that besides like, getting the audiobook because there may not be audiobooks available or especially a lot of the older audiobooks are like they've got the teacher from Ferris Bueller? Do it too in the voiceover. Like falling asleep. So are do you have any strategies for improving reading skills?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 15:15

  Well, that's like I could talk all day about that. It is so hard. There is a net, there's a website called learning ally.org. And it was a company that was created initially for blind and deaf students. And so a lot of the things they were creating literature that was in braille, and now they've done it to really help all sorts of individuals with with different learning styles. They have a lot of audiobooks that way. But as far as you know, as far as reading goes for the kid to, you know, the typical read the intro, look at all the things in bold look at the, the end of the chapter where they have a summary. That the kind of pre reading kind of knowing what am I getting ready to read about kind of knowing the big picture, because a lot of times we can get into the trees, but we don't see the big picture. Yeah. And so knowing Hey, what is the big picture I'm supposed to get away? You walk away with from this. And then, you know, seeing if you can get other people to talk it through with you. And not just, I would say with the audio thing. Don't just listen, you got to listen and read it together. But you also have to know what works for you. So just because one of your friends says hey, with ADHD says, Hey, definitely should listen to it. If you've zoned out, then you're that's doesn't work for you.

  Dave Delaney 16:43

  Yeah, that's a good idea. And I liked the idea of a book club to like, you know, even even a book partnership of a, you know, somebody else who's reading the same book is a great idea. Because then you can you can talk through things I know. Yeah, myself. I've always struggled with, with reading, in the sense not so much comprehension, but just, yeah, my mind wanders or Yeah, and I keep reading and realize I haven't read anything. One thing that I've started doing, or I've been doing for years now is you know, and I was diagnosed this year with ADHD. So this is like, it's pretty good. Gosh, yeah, I'd 50. So, but I've really relations. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, it's a Yeah, it's a huge revelation. I'm like, oh, okay, so much makes sense. Now, I read a lot of nonfiction books. So as I'm reading, like, if I'm reading an actual physical book, I'll mark the heck out of it with a pen. And I'll underline anything that stands out to me or add an asterix or on a note on the pages. And then what I do after reading the book is I write a blog post summarizing those takeaways. So I'll write a blog post, if I enjoy the book, I'll write a blog post. And if I have the time, and I'll, I'll use those excerpts from the underlined portions in the blog post. And so I what I do with that, then is I use that blog post. First of all, there's the Google juice aspect of it, which is nice for SEO for my website, people discover me because they're there, they find that blog posts, but then also, I use the blog posts to provide value to my readers. I use it to network with the author, because I'll send it to the author to let them know how much I enjoyed the book. And then I also use it most importantly, it by doing this and transcribing the notes, it helps me retain the information.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 18:49

  Oh, hands down. Yeah, handwriting. And most of these kids, especially in college, they don't want, they all resent that actual physical book. They're like, Oh, I've got it online, I don't need it. But you know, us being old school, like being able to actually highlight to write down. And that's probably what you're saying is awesome, kind of back to the Cornell note taking where you, you know, you take notes on the right side of the page, there's templates online, anyone can grab, but you take the notes on the right side of the page, at the bottom, you would write a summary. So this could be from the lecture that you listened to, or it could be from the book that you read. And then on the left hand side, the narrower column, you would put the key words that you can then just look at, cover up the right hand side of the page to then look at and then test yourself if you can answer the questions.

  Dave Delaney 19:43

  That's great. That's smart. I like that a lot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I do something similar. I listen to a lot of podcasts. And I know we were talking about podcasts before recording today. One thing I do with with audiobooks If you're using like, you know, Audible, for example, there's way there's places to bookmark within the app itself as you're listening but with most podcasting apps don't have that. So another thing I do is I take screenshots of the podcast player that shows the timeline and the episode information so that I returned to those images in my phone later. And then we'll rewind the podcast or fast forward to that section and then transcribe whatever it was that stood out to me that the guest or the host of the podcast said, just to return back to that, yeah, but yeah, I've found doing that is also been helpful just because like, what's the point of reading something like a nonfiction book? What's the point of reading something to learn from and not learn anything, you know, my wife, like, God bless her. I love her. Obviously, she's my wife. But she's a she's a librarian and a teacher. So she goes through like, she burns through fiction, she reads a ton of fiction. But I'll ask her, like, you know, what some of the books are about? And she, she doesn't remember, like, the main things in the books? And I mean, she does, but not in every book that we talk. Yeah. So anyway, it's interesting. Getting back to the note taking thing, another thing I do is if I do actually have a like a Kindle Paperwhite, and then the Kindle app, you can also highlight sections or words or whatever. But then you can also export those, export that document as a PDF to your email. Oh, yeah. So then you at least have a digital point to refer back to as well. But yeah, writing by hand is always better, in my opinion.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 21:51

  No, it is, it's hard to these, these young kiddos, it's hard for them to like buy into what we also encourage them to do. But um, you know, and I also like, with with, professors will have YouTube videos that they need to watch. And sometimes, you know, I always encourage them, like not only to change the speed of what they're listening to, to what works best for them, but to also, if there's the possibility to see the transcript, that that definitely pull up the transcript, because sometimes you can kind of depending on your reading skill, but kind of scan through it for the information that you need. But also, I like your idea of taking the screenshots, because even like the videos that teachers make, where you might have to might be tested on it later, or the info, like it's just to take the screenshots of whatever visuals are using within that video. If they don't have like a PowerPoint presentation. Yeah.

  Dave Delaney 22:44

  Yeah, that's a great yeah, that's, that's, that's a great idea. So you've been you've been coaching and working with adults with ADHD for more than 25 years. So how, how has things changed in you know, from from back then to now as far as strategies and teaching people how to Yeah, how to how to cope with with ADHD?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 23:11

  Well, I think what's fascinating to me is that turnout dropped the answer quite yet, but is that it's still such an like a quote, unquote, new field. So while I have been like working with students for that long, it hasn't been necessarily as a specific as a coach that worked, you know, within a school system. And so the coaching piece, the change that I see is just the self awareness to understand what exactly is ADHD there's more of a conversation now, that it's a neurological difference. It's not something we're choosing that our motivation is not from importance. It's, you know, from urgency or interests or intrigue or competition. And for people to really start to understand why their brain is doing what it's doing, and to give themselves you know, the grace and forgiveness that this is who I am, you know, I'm not I'm not choosing to be distracted. I'm not choosing to procrastinate because I'm lazy, I don't care. And so I think it's still a pretty new field. I mean, I had someone who I met recently he's incredibly successful is like juggling like four different deals and adult he's juggling like four different deals, super creative outside the box thinker, and as an adult, and he was diagnosed in high school, but as an adult decided, I don't want to take my meds anymore. I don't like the way I feel. And now he's realizing how it's impacting him. So he's got the bonus of what he brings to him his creativity, entrepreneurial spirit, but yet, the day to day admin planning, time management all that is really a struggle for Um, and especially now that he's not taking his meds, but not that everybody has to take meds but yeah, anyway, but if I didn't even directly answer your question as to how this thing changed, I just know that as much as things have changed, things are still just like the educational system, there's a lot there's still the same and teachers, you know, are doing underpaid and under, as you know, the wife, underpaid, undervalued, trying to manage too many things. And the kid with ADHD can consume a lot of energy and focus from the teacher. And that's hard.

  Dave Delaney 25:36

  Yeah, it's, it's yeah, it's definitely difficult. But it's it is interesting to, to speak with with folks like yourself and learn. Yeah, that, that it is something relatively I mean, it's not new, it's been around forever, but something being diagnosed more frequently. I've, I've always, I'm from Canada, originally. And so moving, moving to the States 16 years ago, you know, I would meet American friends and family and everybody was on a prescription for something and, and I'm like, I was hell bent against ever getting on prescribed anything. And it was so funny, because I would go to like a doctor, like my annual physical and the doctor would ask you, or the nurse or whomever would ask, you know, what are you what prescriptions are you on? And I'd say, Well, none. And they'd say, Yeah, but like, what? What medications? Like, what drugs? Are you taking? Like what medications and I'm like, I'm not taking any, like, I take vitamins. And they're always like, Wait, really, like a year 48 and 49. And now I'm on something. I'm like, dang it, man. I came so far. But I do yeah, I do appreciate the value of of meds. And it's something that I'm I'm on a time of this recording. I'm on my fourth month of medication. But I've been experimenting with different doses and different medications as well. So try trying to find the thing that works best. Let's talk a little bit about time blindness. You know, it's something that comes up. It seems to come up a fair amount and tell us a little bit about that. And maybe some some ideas around, you know how to strategize.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 27:28

  Sure. Yeah, I mean, time blindness. We can't estimate how like, we don't feel the passing of time. Like, I hate the word neurotypical but we'll say neurotypical. You know, one thing I love that people don't have anymore are like analog clocks, you have digital clocks everywhere, but the analog clock helps us see, you know, the passing of time better. There is something called a Time Timer, which is great. I think it's harder than like, for elementary school aged children, but it can be used by anyone. And it's, it's not with numbers, it's like, it has like a, like a pie shape kind of thing, like so it's the time is eating away at the the pieces of the pie. So you can kind of you so you can kind of see it and kind of give you that built in time pressure, like feeling like, oh, gosh, I only have you can send it for however long and then you can see it eating away at the pie. And, and yeah, so that can be helpful. For others. For some people, however, it can induce too much anxiety. And so let's say Well, definitely don't do that if it if that's gonna make you feel that way. But time blindness, yeah, that the time horizon is kind of flat. It's like now we're not now like as Ned Halliwell would say. So we're very much in the moment, we can't estimate how long something might take we therefore, you know, there are many people who will run late all the time, they will think the shower only takes them five minutes. So I do one exercise that I know, I was trained on that younger kids can do, but adults can do as well as is to do an experiment. And so where are you? You can just write down, like, take a shower, take into the dishwasher, do a load of laundry, whatever it may be, and you estimate you put down like how long do you think it's going to take? And then you start to time yourself and all all of these different things. And then you kind of get an get a good feel for Okay, how much am I off? Am I off? Like, am I am I under estimating my 30%. And so if that's the case, then going forward. And this is like sounds kind of too easy. But going forward, you can kind of apply that to a lot of things. Granted, there are tasks that you might not know how long it's going to take you because you don't know what kind of problem you're going to encounter as you get into the thick of it but

  Dave Delaney 29:58

  no but that's a great that's such a great eye idea. I think it's definitely something I'm going to, I'm going to try as well, because yeah, I, I don't tend to be late for things I think I've, I've existed this long with with ADHD that I've realized that, like, if I have an appointment to meet somebody, I will all show up like 30 minutes, even an hour early, and I will show up at their, like, let's say their office, I mean, I'm not annoying that way. And I'm also I'm also mindful that if I if it's a coffee meeting, oftentimes the person I'm meeting, and I've done this myself, you know, I'll I'll block and have like, three, back to back coffee meetings. So I won't show up early in case they have somebody else there. But yeah, I'm very, I'm very anal when it comes to punctuality, basically trying to be on time for things. But I love the idea of writing things down. And actually, because you're right, like, so many things take much longer and in some cases, much shorter than we really think. And I think the shorter thing even helps getting back to procrastination, what we were talking about earlier, because if you realize, oh, wait, you know, this, putting the dishes away in the dishwasher actually only took me like three minutes and I was procrastinating, you know, thinking it's gonna take me like an hour. Right? So yeah, I guess it goes both ways.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 31:29

  It does. And gamifying it put on a song okay to challenge yourself by the end of the song, I'm gonna have done A, B or C. Yeah. Anything you can do to make it a little bit more interesting. Yeah,

  Dave Delaney 31:40

  that somebody created a website during the pandemic during the kind of peak of the pandemic at the very beginning, really, or not, at the beginning, about because like the the the advice, of course, was to like, sing Happy Birthday, twice, I think while you're washing your hands, and somebody created a website, where you could look up any song, and it will give you the amount of lyrics that would be long enough. So you so if you did want to sing Happy Birthday, you could sing like whatever your favorite song is. It was just a hokey kind of nerdy idea, which I thought was really, really clever. You mentioned your your distaste of the term neurotypical. Tell me about that?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 32:29

  Well, it's, you know, it's interesting, we, it kind of goes back to, like, who decided what this neurotypical and there's such a, there's such a, there's such an emphasis right now on respect for like, racial diversity, diversity and anything but neuro diversity, there is not this overarching respect for the way if people think differently, or view things differently. And I think that's a huge opportunity, I would say in our country and in the world, but it's a huge opportunity for all of us to start to, I don't even know how you would define or a typical because everybody's got something right. Maybe we're not medicated. Right. So I think I have this distaste for the word neurotypical because it just makes it sound like, right and wrong. Like you're either neurotypical which is just has a positive, you know, connotation. And it's right, and it's good. And then anything not neurotypical is negative off. Yeah, weird. You know, you gotta fix that. And I don't, you know, I think, I don't know if you've ever read the ADHD advantage. One of the, it just talks about that, if we like, if you think about if, if anyone listening to this does not ascribe to the theory of evolution, but you can just disregard what I'm saying. But but, you know, through evolution, if, if ADHD, any of these conditions, if they weren't needed, if they weren't something that we were that was useful, then they would have, we would have evolved to not have them. And so like, we think about, like hunters and gatherers, like the hunters are like, hyperfocus on the hunt, I'm gonna get this animal I am going to. So I'm not saying they're ADHD or not the hunter or the gatherer. Yeah. But but you know, the skill of hyperfocus super valuable, super important. So I don't know, just,

  Dave Delaney 34:32

  yeah, no, it makes that makes a lot of sense. That absolutely makes a lot of sense. And, yeah, I've been curious about, you know, since my own diagnosis, I've been I've been curious, like, I'll be checking out at the grocery store. And I'll be like, Oh my gosh, this person totally has ADHD. You know, and I think I was speaking to someone recently about, like, what's kind of like the analogy of like, when you buy a new car, and you think like, oh, the color and the brand of your car is so special. And then as soon as you drive it off the lot you start seeing there, the same car is everywhere. You know, and I know the number, it's on your website, it's on my website, which has 8 million adults are affected by ADHD. That's an estimate. But um, I wouldn't be curious, like how, yeah, how to find out like, how do you do a focus group? Just any focus group where you want like half to have ADHD? And then the other half are not? How do you know that that other half don't have ADHD? I mean, they may not be they may be undiagnosed. But like, how do you have a secure like, does this make it? Does this make any sense of where I'm going with this? But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if you have any thoughts to that. It's kind of interesting.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 36:01

  I don't know what you were saying about the car and the color. There's like, I saw some real it was interesting. It was like talking about the reticular activating system in our brain. And because our brain is always looking for patterns and organizing things and patterns. And so therefore, we look for corroborating evidence or so if you hear the word like onomatopoeia, all of a sudden, like you're paying more attention to like, whenever you hear that word again, or you see the blue car and you see blue cars everywhere. Yeah. My thought is, if you if there's something that's really greatly impacting you and your your mental health, this is why women are so often misdiagnosed because they're told they're just anxious. Because they're, they're trying to overcompensate for their for their ADHD, so they become extremely anxious. And don't even know where I'm going with this conversation. But, but, but, um, you know, I think if if the treatment helps the person Yeah, reduces the anxiety, alleviates depression, then what is wrong with that? That's that's kind of my question. Unless it leads to, you know, addiction or whatever. I mean, there's, I won't even go down that track. That's about addiction. Because there's a lot of people who say, Oh, ADHD drugs are addictive. Don't put them on that. But the thing is, the people who are unmedicated are the lines that are more likely to self medicate with those illicit drugs.

  Dave Delaney 37:28

  Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a fascinating space. I mean, just for for myself, personally, just, you know, certainly with with the medication aspect as well, but also, you know, just, yeah, it's, it's interesting. You talked about the DSM five, for those who are not familiar, what is the DSM five?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 37:50

  I and I'm not a physician, so I will not do this accurately. But yeah, it's the book. You know, it's the fifth version of like, the doctor Statistical Manual that shows you, that's probably not what it's called. But anyway, it shows you all of the diagnoses and what what is required for what do you have to see or measure for, for that to be a diagnosis? Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

  Dave Delaney 38:15

  And when it comes to hyperactivity, you know, one thing that I've actually I was reading, I think it was your brain stop broken. And, and Tamra is going to be joining me on the podcast. So I'm excited to talk to her. But I think it was in that book where she talked about, like hyperactivity and adults is different. So, you know, I'll talk to people and they'll, they'll say, like, other adult friends, and they'll say, like, you know, I think I have ADHD, but I'm not hyperactive. So I probably don't. And, and what I've learned is that a lot of the hyperactivity, like, adults have learned to cope and reuse or use hyperactivity in different ways. And so instead, a lot of it is internal. And also so instead of like the kid who's physically hyperactive and me all the you know, things that you would you would think that when when I say that, but with an adult, as I read the book, I'm like, Oh, my God, like, I chew my lips all the time. Yeah. Or to the inside of my mouth. I believe it's called Step stymieing, or stimming. Stemming another thing I do, which is it sounds really weird, and kind of creepy. But I feel like if I have a soft soft t shirt, I kind of feel the fabric of the shirt. Yeah, but I do that like always under like, I do it under a table. Like if, like I do it so that it's not obvious that I'm clear because it would just look so weird. But you know, and my wife last one I did. Because I mean, we've talked about it a bunch, but, but I understand that that is another kind of hyperactive.

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 40:05

  So that's also you know that it's interesting because there are actually these tactile strips like Velcro that you could put under a kid's desk that they can feel. And all of this is, is art, we're looking for sensory feedback to keep our brain stimulated, like to keep us able to focus to be awake to be dialed in. And so when these teachers or people are saying, Don't doodle when you're listening, or don't, you know, quit tapping your foot or quit doing this, well, this is all of us trying to keep our brain engaged. It's actually this this strategy we don't realize we're doing. So yeah, so whether it's like picking at something or rubbing something or chewing something. Yeah.

  Dave Delaney 40:47

  Are there other other other examples of that? Where you've where, you know, adults have to handle their hyperactivity, like, I like the idea of like, the Velcro strip under a desk for a child. Yeah. Any thoughts about that?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 41:04

  Yeah, I think that, you know, it's funny. Because even though I do this on a daily basis, there's certain things that my husband does and like, I'm like, oh, no, I know why he's always like, tapping his foot when we're like, at the movies, and it's driving me crazy. Because the seats, he's moving my seat, or, you know, he has to have everything out on the table, because he'll forget if he got if it's not visible. But I mean, other other things that people do that's for sensory feedback. I mean, it's, there's just so many things, it's also things that they don't like, like, the more sensitive to textures, whether it's the tag in their shirt or or eating, ooh, eating is a big one. So my kid, my 21 year old, he, absolutely his wife, one day is going to absolutely hate me. She's gonna say, why does he not eat any vegetables? Why does he, you know, he's such a picky eater. And all of this, you know, is really related to the sensory input, like so, not liking certain textures of foods, not liking certain way things, certain things smell, or even misophonia would like certain noises are hypersensitive to all of this can kind of be in conjunction with ADHD is so fascinating. Yeah. And so the goal, the the key is to be self aware, if this is something you struggle with, to not beat yourself up about it, you know, figure out what are the triggers? And then what can you do, you know, to, to alleviate, whether it's a stressor, or either your brains falling asleep, and you need to rub your T shirt?

  Dave Delaney 42:39

  Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, this is great. This is this is really helpful. And I'm loving it. Are there any questions or topics that maybe I didn't ask you about or something, anything else that you would like to share? Before we

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 42:54

  think the only other thing I'd love to share is because so many of my clients just feel such shame. having ADHD is this like inner conversation you can have with yourself. So like, you've got your mind, which are your values, your character strength, and you've got your brain, which is your neurological automated, like, reactions to things, that when you do something that you're not happy with, like, if you procrastinate, if you suddenly get distracted, or whatever it is, to really have almost like this, you know, inner conversation, like, hello, like, acknowledging Hello brain, I know, this is what you're doing, I understand why. But my intention right now is A, B, or C, to really just try to respect that this is not who you are, this is just part of you. And this is like the weight, the direction your brain wants to go. But that, but this isn't who you are. It's not your character. It's not your values. It's so I'm really trying to respect the brain that you have. Don't, you know, beating ourselves up isn't gonna help and then and really trying to focus on the positives because we get so stuck and ruminating and negative thinking so

  Dave Delaney 44:04

  yeah, that's really new gifts. Yes, yes. This is really this has been great Berkeley. How good how can people get a hold of you and learn more about what you do?

  Berkeley Gardner ADHD Coach 44:13

  Yeah. Thanks, Dave. It's been great to be here. My website is Berkeley gardener coaching.com.com and Berkeley with three E's because living in California, they couldn't even spell my name. So So yeah, so I work with a lot of college students and adults and really love it. So yeah, thanks for having me here.

  Yeah, thank you. This has been fun.