PODCAST. Finding the Right Career and Sticking with it with Jess Jarmo.
This week on the ADHD Wise Squirrels podcast, we are joined by Jess Jarmo, a neurodivergent career coach with 18 years of experience in coaching and recruitment. Jess helps her clients find the right job, grow their careers, and advocate for the support they need, drawing from her professional expertise and lived experience with late-diagnosed ADHD and dyslexia.
Finding the Right Fit: Navigating Careers with ADHD.
From Early Childhood Education to Empowering Adults with ADHD
Jess shares her winding path through career pivots, including a failed attempt at nursing school, a degree in early childhood education, and years in recruiting. But it wasnโt until a late ADHD diagnosisโtriggered by her childrenโs diagnosesโthat the dots started connecting.
Suddenly, her own career struggles made more sense. Missed deadlines, overwhelm, burnoutโall the signs she had dismissed were illuminated. That realization sparked a shift: Jess decided to support people just like her in navigating career paths that suit their neurodivergent strengths.
Career Coaching with Compassion and Strategy
Jess now works with clients to uncover their non-negotiables, define success on their own terms, and build confidence in their abilities. Whether someone is recovering from a performance improvement plan, looking for a promotion, or completely changing career paths, Jess offers structured, strengths-based coaching.
The conversation covers:
Breaking goals into achievable steps
Using personality and strengths assessments (like Enneagram and Ikigai)
Practicing interview skills with neurodivergent communication styles in mind
Navigating disclosure of ADHD in job applications and interviews
Leveraging AI tools (like ChatGPT) to simplify job descriptions and prep resumes
Jess emphasizes that one-size-fits-all career advice doesnโt workโespecially for neurodivergent professionals. Her coaching is highly individualized, trauma-informed, and informed by her own experiences with job loss, toxic workplaces, and finding sustainable, fulfilling work.
What If You're Mid-Career and Stuck?
Many Wise Squirrels listeners are mid-career or beyond and feeling stuck. Jess has advice: It's never too late to pivot. She encourages curious professionals to explore what brings them joy, assess their values, and try informational interviewsโideally over coffee (which Dave has a clever tip about involving bringing the coffee to the meeting).
She helps clients ask the right questions during job interviews, not just to impress the hiring manager, but to determine whether that company or manager is the right fit for them. โYouโre interviewing them, too,โ Jess reminds us.
On Disclosing ADHD: Itโs Complicated
Jess and Dave dive deep into the tricky territory of disclosing ADHD in job applications. Should you check the โdisabilityโ box? What if the application forces a response? Jess shares insights from her recruiting daysโmany of those forms are unseen by hiring managersโand advises job seekers to only disclose if they feel comfortable and safe.
Instead of leading with challenges, she suggests neurodivergent job seekers highlight their strengths and how they manage difficulties. โItโs all in the framing,โ Jess says. โTalk about how you work best, not just what you struggle with.โ
Client Success Story: From Fired to Thriving
One of the most touching moments in the interview is when Jess recalls a client who came to her right after being fired. Jess could see the client was devastatedโsomething she related to on a deeply personal level. Together, they worked through the pain, rebuilt confidence, and just eight weeks later, the client landed a new job in healthcare marketing.
The difference? Having someone in her corner who truly understood what itโs like to be neurodivergent in a workplace that doesnโt get it.
Key Takeaways
Know your non-negotiables: What do you need in a job to be happy and successful?
Practice your storytelling: Refine how you explain your experience and strengths in a way that feels confident and authentic.
Use your strengths: Leverage tools like Enneagram, Ikigai, or even AI to better articulate what youโre good at.
Prepare for the interview: Donโt just answer questionsโask them. Make sure the company is the right fit for you.
Donโt be afraid to reach out: Most jobs come through networking, not job boards. Start connecting now.
Learn More About Jess
You can learn more about Jess Jarmo and her coaching services at jessjarmo.com. Whether youโre stuck, pivoting, or trying to bounce back from a job loss, Jess brings empathy, clarity, and real-world strategies to help you move forward.
-
[00:00.000 --> 00:07.240] I am Jess Jarmo, a neurodivergent career coach, and I help people choose the right job.
[00:07.240 --> 00:12.960] So if they're stuck in their career, maybe they've just come out of college and not
[00:12.960 --> 00:18.080] sure what to do, helping them choose what is the best job for them, as well as finding
[00:18.080 --> 00:21.520] that right job, and as well as on the job support.
[00:21.520 --> 00:27.200] So things like supporting them with getting off of a performance improvement plan, getting
[00:27.200 --> 00:34.760] a promotion, or just having better communication with managers, executive functioning, support,
[00:34.760 --> 00:38.800] test management, and organization, all that great stuff.
[00:38.800 --> 00:44.320] And yeah, my background, I have an undergrad in early childhood development.
[00:44.320 --> 00:51.760] I have my MBA, concentration in human resource, and I have over 15 plus years of experience
[00:51.760 --> 00:53.920] with recruitment and coaching.
[00:53.920 --> 00:55.440] I'm also neurodivergent.
[00:55.440 --> 01:01.360] So I'm dyslexic, I am late diagnosed ADHD, you know, my daughter got diagnosed, and I got
[01:01.360 --> 01:02.360] diagnosed.
[01:02.360 --> 01:03.360] Yeah, it's amazing.
[01:03.360 --> 01:09.200] Especially nowadays, how many women are discovering the ADHD, usually when they're child or children
[01:09.200 --> 01:13.080] or diagnosed, and they start going through that process.
[01:13.080 --> 01:15.800] What was that like for you?
[01:15.800 --> 01:25.400] It was a real, because I remember vividly bringing all three of my kids to the doctor.
[01:25.400 --> 01:31.280] And they're running around, flickering the lights, running over, like, calling off the
[01:31.280 --> 01:32.280] table.
[01:32.280 --> 01:38.600] And my doctor, the pediatrician just looks at me, she's like, yeah, they're ADHD, and, you
[01:38.600 --> 01:44.160] know, also, you know, then it goes into, like, the attention and the school, not being
[01:44.160 --> 01:49.760] able to, you know, pay attention as much, and, you know, just some of the boxes that they
[01:49.760 --> 01:50.760] were checking off.
[01:50.760 --> 01:55.160] I was like, oh, that's why I was having hard time in my career, or, you know, that's
[01:55.200 --> 01:58.400] fine, I couldn't focus, or make those connections.
[01:58.400 --> 01:59.400] So, yeah.
[01:59.400 --> 02:06.000] Is that what took you down the path of, like, I'm assuming you perhaps didn't, I'm putting
[02:06.000 --> 02:11.760] words in your mouth, but I'm assuming you didn't maybe start with a focus on career development
[02:11.760 --> 02:17.160] and careers for ADHD, or so tell me a little bit about, like, kind of, the course of your
[02:17.160 --> 02:21.600] career, how it's taking you, you know, I have some guesses at this point, but I could
[02:21.600 --> 02:22.600] go ahead.
[02:22.600 --> 02:23.600] Yeah.
[02:23.600 --> 02:30.920] Um, so I first, I loved babies and working with kids, and that's really where I wanted
[02:30.920 --> 02:38.920] to start, and I, I didn't do very well in school, I got accepted to one college, AICM Springfield,
[02:38.920 --> 02:47.600] which is a tough neighborhood, but I went there for a nursing, and, um, I failed A&P and
[02:47.600 --> 02:51.120] chemistry, and realized that was in for me.
[02:51.120 --> 03:00.440] Um, I transferred in to another school, I, uh, in, in Massachusetts, and, uh, I, I changed
[03:00.440 --> 03:07.360] careers, uh, to early childhood education, and I absolutely loved working with kids and
[03:07.360 --> 03:09.760] babies and teaching other people.
[03:09.760 --> 03:14.880] I just, you know, training and teaching, coaching, which just comes naturally, um, but
[03:14.880 --> 03:20.840] I graduated, um, college, and I got a job, which I loved, but I was getting paid, like,
[03:20.840 --> 03:24.040] $13 now, and it was a livable wage.
[03:24.040 --> 03:35.440] Um, so I ended up going back for my MBA and humor resource, um, and I really fell in
[03:35.440 --> 03:39.960] love with recruiting, like, I liked knowing, um, what people were making.
[03:39.960 --> 03:44.840] I liked having conversations with people on, um, you know, that type of stuff.
[03:44.840 --> 03:54.840] Um, and, you know, I think that, that's something I really enjoyed, where the transition from,
[03:54.840 --> 04:04.360] you know, being a recruiter to career coach was, you know, after I, um, you know, was,
[04:04.360 --> 04:12.360] I had a really great career, um, in recruitment, but it was like, it wasn't doing so well,
[04:12.360 --> 04:13.960] they were recruitment industry.
[04:13.960 --> 04:16.040] So, um, I had gotten a new job.
[04:16.040 --> 04:21.160] I didn't really like it that much, um, got laid off and realized, like, I really wanted
[04:21.160 --> 04:29.000] to help people like myself, um, with ADHD, dyslexia, autism, um, anxiety, um, find the right
[04:29.000 --> 04:37.560] job because I've had experiences where I've gotten fired, um, you know, I think, you know,
[04:37.800 --> 04:46.040] being able to relate to my clients, um, is something that's passion and telling those stories.
[04:46.040 --> 04:52.600] So, um, yeah, I worked with a career coach myself and, you know, figured out what I wanted to do.
[04:53.480 --> 04:56.840] What was that process like with, with the career coach you worked with?
[04:58.760 --> 05:06.920] Um, so it was really diving deep into my passion, um, what I wanted to do.
[05:07.560 --> 05:16.200] Um, working as a recruiter, like, looking back, I was always coaching people, um, you know,
[05:16.200 --> 05:23.080] even after like, if I was having this conversation and they weren't qualified,
[05:23.720 --> 05:27.320] I was telling them after like, hey, this isn't something I can hire you for, but
[05:27.960 --> 05:32.840] you can really improve on your interview skills with XYZ, and they were so appreciative,
[05:32.840 --> 05:37.240] and it just gave me a boost of, like, dopamine, and I'm like, you know,
[05:37.240 --> 05:41.960] it's so exciting, I can help this person, even though I couldn't move them onto the next, next stage.
[05:42.680 --> 05:46.920] Um, but yeah, it was good for, so I'll get back to your actual question.
[05:46.920 --> 05:56.520] The, um, you know, working with the career coach, it's great to have a accountability partner.
[05:56.600 --> 06:00.200] It's great to have somebody in front of society, because of its, you know, non-bias,
[06:00.840 --> 06:07.000] um, and, you know, working towards bulls, so, you know, taking those actionable steps,
[06:07.560 --> 06:09.640] rather than just, you know, talking about it.
[06:10.520 --> 06:15.080] Yeah, and I have coaching clients as well, and absolutely have always, have always loved this,
[06:15.080 --> 06:21.560] like the, the, the process of helping, you know, to your point, I mean, about how we
[06:21.640 --> 06:28.840] wise quarrels, ADHDers tend to love solving problems, and, and, and in a non-bias way,
[06:28.840 --> 06:33.800] in a, in a kind way, leading with empathy and so on, and, and, and, you know, approaching things in
[06:33.800 --> 06:41.000] that, in that way, I think is, and, and also just from shared experiences and, and a lot of
[06:41.000 --> 06:45.800] experience, just life experience and career experience ourselves, I think we bring a lot to
[06:45.800 --> 06:51.080] the table that way. So I love that you're, I love that you're doing that. Tell me about the process,
[06:51.080 --> 06:57.160] like if somebody were to, to, to hire you, because I don't do, like, I don't usually focus so much
[06:57.160 --> 07:03.800] on career, more on business growth, um, but tell me more about the, that process of, you know,
[07:03.800 --> 07:10.200] somebody comes to you, they're like, I'm stuck, I don't know which path to go on, help me kind of
[07:10.200 --> 07:15.880] figure out, you know, are any of these paths the right one, or is there another one behind those
[07:15.880 --> 07:25.000] bushes over there that I should, yeah, yeah, um, so choosing the right job is a lot of,
[07:25.000 --> 07:30.120] you know, we're talking about non-negotiables, right? So what are the things that are going to make
[07:30.120 --> 07:36.120] you happy, successful, and breaking them down into smaller steps? So what are the tasks that you
[07:36.120 --> 07:42.520] enjoy doing every day, um, and how do we match those up with jobs that you'll enjoy? Um,
[07:43.400 --> 07:48.840] and, you know, there's going to be challenges in every job, but how do we, what are the, um,
[07:48.840 --> 07:55.240] tools and support that you need around those challenges, um, and really diving into one of those
[07:55.240 --> 08:01.080] challenges, because all of us who are neurodivergent, they're all different, you know, you could even
[08:01.080 --> 08:06.280] take the same, you know, you should do people, they, or autistic people, and they'd have completely
[08:06.360 --> 08:14.760] different, you know, um, strengths and challenges. Um, so breaking that down into, you know,
[08:14.760 --> 08:22.360] non-negotiables, um, you know, I do an assessment, um, we have conversations, we do different
[08:22.360 --> 08:30.520] types of coaching, um, you know, not just motivational, so I feel like, you don't know what you don't
[08:30.520 --> 08:36.440] know, so I can't ask you a question. Yeah. That you don't know, so we need to do some education,
[08:37.400 --> 08:44.200] um, and action steps, setting goals, um, of course, the ultimate goal is, you know, choosing the
[08:44.200 --> 08:54.840] job, finding the job, um, but what are the smaller goals so we can feel accomplished? Um, and, um, yeah,
[08:54.840 --> 09:02.280] I think that you're just having, you know, somebody that is, again, not biased to have that
[09:02.280 --> 09:08.840] conversation with, and understanding that, you know, myself, and I have another coach, both neurodivergent,
[09:08.840 --> 09:16.520] so there's some ease and tension of, am I talking to somebody who's neurotypical, and do I have to
[09:16.520 --> 09:22.680] kind of mask here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there, so you're saying like, you kind of breaking it down
[09:22.680 --> 09:28.360] into smaller steps or smaller goals? So, like, let's say there's somebody in that, like, you know,
[09:28.360 --> 09:34.920] because a lot of the listeners of wise quarrels are sort of mid-aged or older, you know, who,
[09:34.920 --> 09:43.800] who have had some career, break career, or careers, um, and you are now like at that crossroads, kind of
[09:44.360 --> 09:50.520] deciding what to do next, or, or, you know, deciding they, they want to make a change, um,
[09:50.520 --> 09:56.280] um, so if they come to you, what, what are some of those, what are some of those steps you take
[09:56.280 --> 10:01.000] them through? You mentioned like an assessment, like, I always recommend, I have it on wise
[10:01.000 --> 10:08.680] quarrels too, like, achy guy, um, and I love, I love that, that exercise for soul, soul searching,
[10:08.680 --> 10:13.480] and kind of defining and determining some of the things that you love to do, and, and that you're
[10:13.480 --> 10:17.720] passionate about, and that you're good at, and that, you know, the world will pay you for, because
[10:17.720 --> 10:24.600] obviously, you know, we can't all be mother Teresa, so, uh, so yeah, tell me, tell me about
[10:25.240 --> 10:29.560] some of that, some of those steps in order to help, you know, help folks, so if somebody's listening
[10:29.560 --> 10:35.480] right now, and they're like, man, I'm fed up with my job, or maybe I've just been laid off, or maybe
[10:35.480 --> 10:40.040] whatever, and they're thinking, okay, it's time for a change, what, what are some of the steps
[10:40.040 --> 10:47.000] that you would take them through? Yeah, definitely, um, so that, that non-negotiable for sure,
[10:47.000 --> 10:54.760] like things, talking about things like, um, you know, what, like, the task, I guess, so that would
[10:54.760 --> 10:59.880] be one piece, but we're also, you know, we can do an assessment, the assessment that I like to do
[10:59.880 --> 11:07.320] is, um, we do the aniogram, um, and that can, you know, give you some options, but we also want to
[11:08.680 --> 11:14.600] take this test in a way that we're answering the questions in the right way of, this is the
[11:14.600 --> 11:20.200] job that I want, and not like a hobby type of thing, um, so that's something we go through,
[11:20.200 --> 11:26.760] and this is just a piece of the puzzle, I really like to get into, let's do research on these
[11:26.760 --> 11:32.520] different jobs, um, and there's different ways to do research, like informational interviewing,
[11:33.080 --> 11:40.840] um, there's, you know, watching videos online about, all right, somebody telling me, how do I do
[11:40.840 --> 11:45.480] this job, or, you know, if it's more physical job, maybe you can see the step-by-step process,
[11:45.480 --> 11:53.400] you can shadow people, um, I have a recruitment background, so, you know, I can give some education,
[11:54.040 --> 12:00.520] what those jobs entail, what those salaries are, you know, we also talk about finances,
[12:00.520 --> 12:06.360] you know, what can you afford if you are searching careers, you might have to take a pay cut,
[12:06.360 --> 12:13.400] and is that something, you know, you can do right now, how much can you afford, so, you know,
[12:14.440 --> 12:19.080] going through all those steps of, you know, what does that cash flow look like, and can you do that?
[12:19.720 --> 12:25.640] Um, I think there's, you know, a bigger picture too, um, so yeah.
[12:26.280 --> 12:30.200] Yeah, that's great, I'm, uh, 486 for any grant.
[12:30.760 --> 12:31.240] Nice.
[12:33.240 --> 12:41.080] I always have to look it up, but I'm like, uh, four is idealist, eight is challenger, and then six is
[12:41.080 --> 12:49.160] loyalist. So I've got all my, all my Myers-Briggs and disc and predictive index and all the others,
[12:50.120 --> 12:55.320] all in one document, and then I like, I have strategies that I take some clients through,
[12:55.320 --> 12:59.240] and I also have a presentation and training idea called the root down, which helps people know
[12:59.320 --> 13:05.320] themselves better, respect themselves, and then connect themselves. And so it's sort of a three-part
[13:05.320 --> 13:10.840] presentation and workshop, uh, for audiences, which I am, I'm absolutely passionate about.
[13:11.720 --> 13:18.200] And, and the thread line for that presentation and training is actually, uh, it's about my ADHD
[13:18.200 --> 13:23.560] and my late diagnosis, but the, but the, of course, as you know, like, engram and all these other
[13:23.560 --> 13:28.680] exercises and assessments cannot be done for, you know, anybody, you know, regardless of their
[13:28.680 --> 13:36.440] neurotypes. Yeah, definitely. I'm a, I'm a two for the amyogram. So I'm a helper. Helper. Helper.
[13:37.000 --> 13:43.880] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's fascinating. You know, I love, I love
[13:43.880 --> 13:48.840] personality assessments and strengths, finder and all these things. Um, you know, I always add the
[13:48.840 --> 13:54.520] caveat, you know, because every scientist listening will say, well, hold on. And I'm always like,
[13:54.520 --> 14:02.520] okay, they're not, they're unscientific. However, they, what I like about them is they,
[14:04.040 --> 14:09.480] they can remind you of your strengths when you're not really fully self-aware or fully aware
[14:10.200 --> 14:16.520] enough about what you're good at or what your personality, personality, personality is like. So
[14:17.080 --> 14:23.800] these assessments can help kind of, you know, bring some clarity to the areas that you're best at
[14:23.800 --> 14:29.000] and not as good at, too. So you can, you know, depending on the assessment, you can learn your strengths
[14:29.000 --> 14:35.560] and your weaknesses. Um, and so, yeah, that's part of the reason why I like them so much. You know,
[14:35.560 --> 14:39.960] sometimes when I do them, I'm like, well, duh, yeah, these, these answers make complete sense.
[14:40.040 --> 14:47.240] Like my, I forget, I think it's, I think it's my disc, you know, communication is my number one
[14:47.800 --> 14:54.280] thing, right? And consistency and, and that makes complete sense, right? Um, so a lot of it is,
[14:54.280 --> 14:59.000] like you do these assessments and you're like, yeah, that makes sense. But it also helps remind you
[14:59.000 --> 15:02.760] of your strengths. And then, and depending on the assessment or the coach you're working with,
[15:02.760 --> 15:06.680] you know, you can, you can help guide them based on their strengths and say, like, look,
[15:07.480 --> 15:14.600] because you're, you know, my, my Myers-Briggs is ENFJ, right? So extroverted, intuitive,
[15:14.600 --> 15:21.560] feeling and judging, right? Judging. So, so, you know, I'm a people person. I love being out,
[15:21.560 --> 15:27.160] networking, and I'm not, I'm an extroverted, much extrovert, much to my wife's chagrin,
[15:29.080 --> 15:35.960] and drive her crazy. Um, so, you know, if I'm, I know myself that like when I'm sitting alone at
[15:35.960 --> 15:42.280] home all day working, it's not always the best thing for me. I need to be either doing this
[15:42.280 --> 15:47.480] right now, talking to you, or, or actually out in real life, like, actually like, you know,
[15:47.480 --> 15:54.280] high-fiving somebody in the flesh, you know? So, anyone, I tell you what, a rant there. What are
[15:54.280 --> 15:59.240] your thoughts to all that? I just gave you a bunch of verbal diarrhea, sorry. That was good. Um,
[15:59.320 --> 16:05.240] I, I agree. I think that understanding your strengths with these assessments can be really
[16:05.240 --> 16:11.480] helpful for your career, and you're studying yourself up for success. I'm saying, you know,
[16:11.480 --> 16:18.600] one of the, the challenges, because I think, you know, a lot of the people that I work with,
[16:18.600 --> 16:24.600] they're not really sure what their strengths are versus weaknesses, or, you know, um, they have
[16:24.600 --> 16:31.640] an idea, but once you start diving into that, and then the clear you want to pivot to, um,
[16:32.440 --> 16:37.720] you can align that better. Yeah, and you mentioned informational interviews, and I think that's
[16:37.720 --> 16:44.600] such a, such solid advice. Um, uh, I wrote a book years ago called New Business Networking,
[16:44.600 --> 16:50.040] and in it, I talked, I wrote about what I actually, some of the stuff that I did, and this works
[16:50.040 --> 16:55.400] better for younger people, typically, but not every, I mean, anybody can use techniques like this,
[16:55.400 --> 17:03.240] but the one I love, and as I said, I did this, was when I was younger, um, and a student, I just
[17:03.240 --> 17:11.480] graduated, and I was looking for a job. So I called, like I called, uh, the, the leaders of companies,
[17:11.480 --> 17:15.960] or departments, or, you know, I was, I was looking for, you know, starting a role in, in marketing
[17:15.960 --> 17:23.080] and promotions, and, um, and said, basically, hi, I'm, you know, Dave Delaney, I'm a student,
[17:23.080 --> 17:28.760] or, you know, newly graduated student, that always helps. Um, because then they're like, okay,
[17:28.760 --> 17:32.200] you know, the guy's not going to sell me something. He's not coming in as trying to sell me something.
[17:33.640 --> 17:37.800] And you say, you know, I would love to meet with you for 10 minutes of your time.
[17:38.360 --> 17:42.680] Um, I'll even buy you a coffee, just to learn more about the industry.
[17:43.400 --> 17:48.280] And, and that's kind of the message. And nine times at a 10, the person will say, yes, sure.
[17:48.280 --> 17:54.920] Come on in. And you come in. But as I instruct people, I always say, like, uh, bring in in the book,
[17:54.920 --> 18:00.040] I talk about like bringing the coffee with you. So you bring the coffee with the stir stick,
[18:00.040 --> 18:06.040] with the cream, or with the sugar, all that stuff. So that, and then, you know, most of the time,
[18:06.040 --> 18:09.800] they're in the office. So they have like a coffee maker and they're shocked. They're like,
[18:09.800 --> 18:13.720] whoa, I didn't expect you to actually bring the coffee. And you're like, oh, I'm a person
[18:13.720 --> 18:19.800] of my word. And you bring the coffee. But what happens from this is that you're leaving something
[18:19.800 --> 18:24.440] tangible. And especially in this day and age, when everything's digital, you're leaving something
[18:24.440 --> 18:29.000] tangible. So it's not just your follow up email after to thank them and so on. But you're
[18:29.000 --> 18:33.720] actually leaving a, you're giving them a coffee. So when they leave, when you leave, that coffee
[18:33.720 --> 18:39.240] cup might be on their desk for the next day or days, depending how often they clean off their desk,
[18:39.240 --> 18:44.120] I guess, could even be on the, in the, on the desk for a week. And every time they look at that
[18:44.120 --> 18:49.960] coffee cup, they're going to be reminded of you. And I think that's such a good strategy of,
[18:49.960 --> 18:53.800] and you're not being sneaky or anything. This is, I mean, you're genuinely bringing them a coffee,
[18:53.800 --> 18:58.520] right? But you're also showing the your person of your word. What do you think about that crazy
[18:58.520 --> 19:04.200] strategy? I think that's awesome. I think that's genius because they're now reminded of you
[19:05.000 --> 19:13.000] more often after you leave. So they're like, they're thinking about you and if there's anything
[19:13.000 --> 19:17.400] that, you know, maybe you've asked in the interview or things that they could follow up with you
[19:17.400 --> 19:22.520] or potentially find a job, you know, that's a really good impression to leave.
[19:23.320 --> 19:29.640] Yeah, yeah. And also when you're, when you, you know, another way I did this was moving the
[19:29.640 --> 19:33.960] Nashville from Toronto because I didn't really know anybody in this city when I moved here.
[19:33.960 --> 19:39.080] And so I did the same sort of thing, basically cold calling people. And luckily, I'm in,
[19:39.080 --> 19:44.360] you know, a city where people are very nice and friendly. And, you know, again, most people said,
[19:44.360 --> 19:48.840] sure. And instead of saying, I'm a student, I just said, I'm, I'm a, you know, I'm a marketing
[19:48.840 --> 19:52.120] professional, but I'm new to Nashville. And I would love to just meet with you and get the
[19:52.120 --> 19:58.120] lay of the land kind of thing. But the deal is that like, when, when you're going to these
[19:58.120 --> 20:03.160] informational coffees, you're not there to like sell anything except yourself perhaps.
[20:04.040 --> 20:08.840] So you're not saying, hey, by the way, I'm really looking for a job. You're going there to press them
[20:08.840 --> 20:16.200] so that, you know, they, and to let them do the bulk of the talking, right, by using active listening.
[20:16.200 --> 20:21.960] And then when they, you know, as you're speaking, they might say, you know, are you looking for a job?
[20:21.960 --> 20:27.160] And yeah, that's a heck yeah. But the other thing you could say at the end, which I always
[20:27.160 --> 20:32.440] recommend is, by the way, before I go, is there somebody else in the industry you think I should
[20:32.440 --> 20:40.520] meet? And, and then ask them for an introduction to that person. Would you mind like emailing us
[20:40.520 --> 20:45.320] just a quick connecting us? That way, you know, that way I can follow up directly with that person.
[20:45.960 --> 20:52.280] And, you know, hopefully they say yes. And then, you know, there's some strategies I use for
[20:52.280 --> 20:58.040] reminding people through email and stuff. But that way, you're broadening your, your network now
[20:59.160 --> 21:04.520] in a new community or different industry with, with new people. And somebody who is
[21:05.560 --> 21:11.720] known or a veteran in that industry is introducing you to someone else in that industry. And that's
[21:11.720 --> 21:17.160] another way to kind of open, open doors. But taking a step back for a step, what about like,
[21:17.160 --> 21:25.080] you know, this, this is assuming you know what industry or what job you should be going out after,
[21:25.080 --> 21:29.880] right? So it's hard to set up informational coffees or informational meetings without
[21:30.520 --> 21:36.280] knowing who to call. You can't just, you know, reach out to everybody, Willie Nellie. So any,
[21:36.280 --> 21:42.840] any ideas and tips on trying to define, let's say somebody in mid-career instead of a younger
[21:42.840 --> 21:48.840] person like a college kid or something, or a college person. Yeah. I now have one college person
[21:48.840 --> 21:56.520] and another one soon. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Like later in life,
[21:58.120 --> 22:06.440] you know, you're evaluating your career, you're thinking of like a new direction. Yeah. Yeah.
[22:06.440 --> 22:11.240] I think it's, I think it's great to reach out. I guess you have four numbers. That's awesome.
[22:11.240 --> 22:16.040] I think it's also great. You know, you can message people on LinkedIn. But it's more about
[22:16.920 --> 22:24.840] them and learning from them and, you know, talking about, oh, you know, I, you know, your background
[22:24.840 --> 22:33.640] is very amazing to me. I like XYZ. I would love to, you know, improve my career. And I'd love to
[22:33.640 --> 22:39.720] know how you got to where you are. You know, it was anyway, I can pick your brain and learn more
[22:39.720 --> 22:47.960] from you, you know, type of conversation where like you said, we're not asking for a job. We
[22:47.960 --> 22:53.080] are learning from them and how I kind of explain it is that most people like helping people and
[22:53.080 --> 23:00.280] most people like talking about themselves. So, yeah. That's a good thing to keep in mind because I feel
[23:00.280 --> 23:06.840] like a lot of people are hesitant to ask for help or to reach out to people unless you're a
[23:06.840 --> 23:13.400] people person and you enjoy doing that. Just having that conversation of it's okay to reach out.
[23:13.400 --> 23:18.200] And if they say no, or if they don't answer you, they're probably just busy. It's, you know,
[23:18.920 --> 23:25.480] yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't get the, don't let the rejection sensitive dysphoria kick in and kick
[23:25.480 --> 23:31.800] in the butt. Yeah. That makes sense. I was thinking of a question to pop in my head there as we're
[23:31.880 --> 23:37.720] as you're talking about that. With, oh, yes. As you're, so for folks that are
[23:39.320 --> 23:46.440] applying to a job, let's say nowadays, I keep saying nowadays, I'm telling you nowadays. When
[23:46.440 --> 23:58.440] I was a kid, it only cost a nickel. Yeah. I get off my lawn. But I was thinking as you're going
[23:58.440 --> 24:05.240] through now, especially digitally, you're applying online a lot of the time. Now, the stats are like,
[24:05.240 --> 24:10.600] it's something, I don't know the actual number, but it's something like 75% of the jobs out there are
[24:10.600 --> 24:16.200] not listed. So it's really who you know, which is why networking is such an important piece of this.
[24:17.400 --> 24:22.520] But let's assume you're applying to a job online and you get to that dreaded question,
[24:23.240 --> 24:32.120] do you have disability? And you have the answers, unfortunately, usually these things force you
[24:32.120 --> 24:44.040] to answer. So you can either say, yes, no, or I prefer not to answer. And what are your thoughts?
[24:44.120 --> 24:53.400] Now, obviously, disability is a term that I'm well aware. It's questionable at best.
[24:53.400 --> 25:00.440] However, ADHD is listed as one of those air quote, you know, disabilities.
[25:02.280 --> 25:09.160] What are you? And I'm not talking about for being embarrassed or ashamed of having ADHD. I mean,
[25:09.160 --> 25:14.840] I started this podcast because, you know, I wanted people to know about my ADHD because I want
[25:14.840 --> 25:20.680] others to embrace their own. But of course, you know, it's up to everybody individually and there's
[25:20.680 --> 25:27.320] always, there could be reasons why you don't want to disclose this. So what are your thoughts on that
[25:27.320 --> 25:36.280] dreaded question and what and what somebody should do when they reach that? So are you talking about
[25:36.440 --> 25:43.480] when you're filling out the form, right? Yes. And it's a triangle. So those forms sometimes aren't
[25:43.480 --> 25:50.920] even seen by recruiters. So it can be for different reasons. It can be that they're trying to pull
[25:50.920 --> 25:59.400] stats of, you know, what that looks like. Some companies get, they'll get a tax ride off for hiring
[25:59.400 --> 26:09.400] a certain amount of people or disabled. So, you know, who I am as well. I don't, I, I showed it
[26:09.400 --> 26:14.040] from the rooftops. You can see it all over my, my LinkedIn, you know, I'm just like, I have ADHD,
[26:14.680 --> 26:25.000] you know, it's something I'm proud of. You know, it's just a check box. It shouldn't have like being
[26:25.080 --> 26:33.000] a recruiter, too. It doesn't have a sway. And oh, they, you know, when I was recruiting, you couldn't see
[26:33.000 --> 26:38.360] that. It wasn't something we were looking at. And it's, you know, personally, go up to your
[26:38.360 --> 26:47.880] scrutiny. But, you know, if we're, you know, checking if you're talking about your disability,
[26:47.960 --> 26:55.720] that's a different question of how do we do this and talk about our strengths, rather than going
[26:55.720 --> 27:01.080] into I'm really bad at this. I'm really bad at that. You know, you want to present it in a positive
[27:01.080 --> 27:07.880] light. And, you know, if you're having challenges, this is what I need because, you know, this sometimes
[27:07.880 --> 27:12.520] is a little bit harder for me. But here's how I work with this. So this is assuming that you've
[27:12.520 --> 27:18.760] gotten to the interview process part, right? The, I think the challenge is often that you do get to
[27:18.760 --> 27:25.800] that part of the online application. And, and, and, and with full awareness, of course, that it is
[27:25.800 --> 27:31.560] illegal to discriminate. And, and even, you know, for the applicant, they don't know whether the,
[27:31.560 --> 27:39.720] the recruiter or whomever, whoever's seeing the information. But I think it's, it is something
[27:39.720 --> 27:45.320] that I see a lot of people talk about, which is, yeah, they don't know how to answer that question
[27:45.320 --> 27:51.720] because, you know, if you say yes, you're not saying ADHD, you're just saying yes, I have a
[27:51.720 --> 27:59.720] disability. And, and so if that, I mean, you, one could assume that somebody could discriminate,
[27:59.720 --> 28:06.040] even though it's illegal, they break the law all the time. So they could think, well, I'm not hiring
[28:06.040 --> 28:12.680] this person. They're crazy. Or, or whatever, right? So they could discriminate. But if you say no,
[28:14.040 --> 28:21.560] then once you get, if you get the job, then you might want to get accommodations, or at least ask for
[28:21.560 --> 28:27.960] accommodations that, that may be problematic at that point, because you said no. And if you say,
[28:27.960 --> 28:33.160] I prefer not to answer. Like, if I was a recruiter and saw that answer, and I don't care about
[28:33.160 --> 28:37.560] discriminating anyone, if I, if they say I prefer not to answer, that would tell me that they
[28:37.560 --> 28:45.720] probably do. So, yeah, what, what, what is your advice in that situation for somebody applying?
[28:46.840 --> 28:54.120] I know it's tough, but it's a tough question. It's really, I think is what you're comfortable with,
[28:54.120 --> 29:00.680] honestly, because if you're going to have a conversation, if you are going to, because it is a
[29:00.680 --> 29:06.520] broad question, right? Because you can be disabled for something completely different, and they don't
[29:06.520 --> 29:15.160] know that. So that's, you know, completely up to you, because if you want to talk about that,
[29:16.200 --> 29:19.560] if you're open to that, and that's going to be a conversation you're going to have,
[29:20.360 --> 29:27.560] you can definitely check it off. You can check off, you know, you can even skip it. I don't
[29:27.640 --> 29:33.080] think you need to. Some of them, I think some of them force you to do it, right? So some of the
[29:33.080 --> 29:38.680] applications like force you to do it. Yeah, sometimes I, you know, if I'm talking to someone about it,
[29:38.680 --> 29:47.320] I'll just say, you know, if you really, if you're not sure, I think, I think it might be best.
[29:47.320 --> 29:50.920] Again, this is sort of anecdotal, right? It's a tough question, but I was curious.
[29:50.920 --> 29:57.240] It's a tough question. Um, is to say I prefer not to answer, but then in order to be, it's a
[29:57.240 --> 30:01.480] weird thing, right? Because if you say I prefer not to answer that question, then what I would recommend,
[30:01.480 --> 30:06.760] if you do that, is to say I prefer not to answer all of the other questions about whether you're a
[30:06.760 --> 30:13.000] veteran, whether you're, you know, whatever, um, you know, race, gender, sexuality, all these
[30:13.000 --> 30:19.080] things that might come up, just I prefer not to answer on all of them. But then almost like to
[30:19.560 --> 30:25.960] that might tell the recruiter, uh, this person's going to be like, uh, causing a big ruckus about
[30:25.960 --> 30:32.440] all these things, right? So then it's again, it's such a like, yeah, it's, it's, it's a real difficult,
[30:33.560 --> 30:37.880] it's really a difficult thing. And I wish, I wish there were answers. And of course,
[30:37.880 --> 30:44.120] yeah, I mean, we know discrimination is illegal. And we know that maybe, maybe in the job,
[30:44.120 --> 30:49.400] or the company that you're looking for, finding companies that do higher neurodiversion people,
[30:49.400 --> 30:55.160] because like I worked, you know, I worked, I did Google with a client for about six years,
[30:55.160 --> 31:00.120] I did a lot of work with Google. And I know like, and I've done a lot of work in, in the tech space.
[31:00.120 --> 31:08.920] So I know, uh, certainly a lot of tech companies actually now actively recruit, uh, neurodivergent
[31:09.000 --> 31:16.360] people. And they do so not to take a box. Um, but instead they see the value. So like, I know,
[31:16.360 --> 31:22.040] I think IBM and I know Microsoft also, um, and there are probably many more that actually have
[31:22.040 --> 31:30.520] departments, uh, specifically for, uh, for folks. So I think because they understand it like, you
[31:30.520 --> 31:37.080] know, if, if you love coding and you get hyper focused on problem solving with code, we want you
[31:37.080 --> 31:42.120] to be really happy and, and go for it, right? Because, you know, and again, I'm generalizing here,
[31:42.120 --> 31:49.880] but, um, anyway, uh, what about like, uh, navigating the, the job market these days, you know,
[31:49.880 --> 31:54.120] where, where things are sort of topsy-turvy, or completely upside down, depending,
[31:55.320 --> 32:02.760] what, what are you? Yeah. Uh, what, uh, what are your thoughts on, on, on getting out there and,
[32:03.560 --> 32:08.040] and getting a job? Do you think like, what are some tips on, you know, let's say you've done
[32:08.040 --> 32:13.480] the assessments, you've, you've got a clear idea on some ideas of the, the industries and the jobs
[32:13.480 --> 32:20.920] you want to do. What are some, what are the next steps, do you think? So, um, like, there's,
[32:20.920 --> 32:26.440] there's statistics that 85% of people get hired to do somebody, whether they reached out to them,
[32:26.440 --> 32:34.600] they were family, friends, previous co-workers, and networking is the top way to find a job right
[32:34.600 --> 32:40.520] now, um, and it can be really hard for people or neurodivergent or have trouble with, you know,
[32:40.520 --> 32:49.240] have the anxiety, um, but putting yourself out there and making connections. Um, I always say that,
[32:49.240 --> 32:54.760] you know, recruiters and managers are people too, and the number one thing when I was a recruiter
[32:54.760 --> 32:59.800] is the manager said, well, I just didn't connect with them. They could have all the, you know,
[33:01.000 --> 33:07.800] skills, experience in the world and everything, so I just didn't connect. So, that connection piece is
[33:09.320 --> 33:18.200] really important, um, and if that is hard for you, you know, you want to talk about, um, I,
[33:18.200 --> 33:23.880] I have people talking the beginning of their interview saying, um, emotion sometimes can be hard
[33:23.960 --> 33:30.840] to show, and that's what managers want to see, but, you know, saying, hey, I, um, I'm really excited
[33:30.840 --> 33:37.160] about this position. Um, I, you know, just wanted to let you know that I'm, you know, thanks for letting me
[33:38.120 --> 33:43.640] be here, but, you know, sometimes it's, you know, I'm a little nervous, and, you know, it's hard
[33:43.640 --> 33:48.440] for me to show my emotion, my enthusiasm, but just want to know, like, I'm so excited. So that kind
[33:48.520 --> 33:53.320] of breaks the tension where they get a little bit of empathy for you, they understand that you're
[33:53.320 --> 34:02.680] trying to talk, um, about this, so that connection piece can be really good, um, and breaking that,
[34:02.680 --> 34:09.160] breaking the ice, I would say the networking connection, um, and then just getting the interview,
[34:09.160 --> 34:16.040] you have to have the right resume, you have to have it, um, the right key words to, um, you know,
[34:16.040 --> 34:22.520] you have AI now, um, if the recruiters looking at it, they're only looking at it for seven seconds,
[34:23.080 --> 34:29.560] um, so you want to make sure it looks crisp, and, you know, ready to go, you have a, you know,
[34:29.560 --> 34:34.360] the words in there, so. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good tip. Yeah, because I did a lot of work with
[34:34.360 --> 34:39.160] Google, and I've worked in digital marketing for so long, I always say I'm a recovering marketer.
[34:39.160 --> 34:48.200] Uh, I know enough, I know enough about SEO, search engine optimization, uh, and yeah, you,
[34:48.200 --> 34:53.800] you raise a really important point there, which is like, you know, focusing on, uh, on the skills
[34:53.800 --> 35:01.480] that are in your resume, uh, like even using the language in your resume, not like different
[35:01.480 --> 35:08.440] language like English French, et cetera, but, but using the kind of tone and style of the actual
[35:08.440 --> 35:16.520] application of the actual job listing. Yeah. And, and then honing the descriptions of your skills
[35:16.520 --> 35:25.000] or accomplishments, uh, weaving in those keywords that they're looking for, so that when, because,
[35:25.640 --> 35:31.320] yeah, when you apply online, I mean, I don't know the inner workings of indeed or how it's
[35:31.320 --> 35:40.280] algorithm works or LinkedIn or whatever, but I'm smart enough to know that their algorithms
[35:40.280 --> 35:45.000] are looking for these keywords to raise your resume or cover letter to the top of the heap or
[35:45.000 --> 35:50.680] the top of the pile. So yeah, that's, that's a really important point. You mentioned AI, are you
[35:50.680 --> 36:01.320] doing stuff with AI, uh, so far? Um, so I have people, so I recommend certain, like, AI tools
[36:01.320 --> 36:08.440] for, for people to use. So, you know, chat GBT is very helpful, um, text-to-speech, speech-to-text,
[36:10.120 --> 36:17.560] things like that that, you know, can cut time and also help you with articulating what you want to
[36:17.560 --> 36:24.440] say, um, whether it's answering question or coming up with questions or we've actually,
[36:24.440 --> 36:31.480] it goes through job descriptions with my clients and sometimes they say, well, I don't qualify
[36:31.480 --> 36:37.480] for this position. This doesn't make sense. And, I know, and I take the, the wording and I put it
[36:37.480 --> 36:43.480] in chat GBT and I say, please simplify this and it spits it out and it, and she's like, oh, I do
[36:43.560 --> 36:56.600] that. So it's funny how the language can be misinterpreted. Um, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, that's great.
[36:56.600 --> 37:01.080] Yeah, and especially, you know, I mentioned tech, especially in that industry, you know,
[37:01.720 --> 37:08.200] the names of different things change over time. So like, you know, if I go, if I date myself here,
[37:08.280 --> 37:15.160] like, like, most recently, like, we'll say social, social media, right? And, and so let's,
[37:15.160 --> 37:19.320] you know, if you talk about social media, you could be talking about Facebook, let's say, but
[37:20.280 --> 37:24.520] go back a little bit. We were talking about social networks and social networking. Now,
[37:24.520 --> 37:29.240] it's all just social media. But if you go back further, then you're talking about like blogs and,
[37:29.240 --> 37:33.080] and if you go back further, you're talking about web blogs. And if you go back further,
[37:33.080 --> 37:37.400] you're talking about forums and go back further, you're talking about like bulletin board systems,
[37:37.400 --> 37:43.240] BBSs back before the internet, um, when you were dialing into computers. And now I'm like,
[37:43.240 --> 37:49.480] you know, getting prehistoric, so I'll shut up. But yeah, you're right. I mean, the language does
[37:49.480 --> 37:57.720] change in depending on, or, or different industries will use, you know, they all hire an HR manager,
[37:57.720 --> 38:05.880] HR director, but it may be human resources, uh, VP of HR, or it may be chief people officer,
[38:05.880 --> 38:11.480] or it may be like, there's all these different terms, right? So, yeah, that's a good point of,
[38:11.480 --> 38:20.360] of maybe using chat GPT to research the industry and, and the time job titles that, that best suit
[38:20.360 --> 38:31.640] that, that industry. Um, I'm often curious how, where our listeners are on their knowledge of AI,
[38:31.640 --> 38:40.920] um, because I do like training and workshops and things about using AI, um, and I actually just
[38:40.920 --> 38:48.280] finished reading, although I kind of wish I didn't. I just read, uh, no, I, I loved it. Uh, you've
[38:48.280 --> 38:55.240] all Navarri's book, Nexus, um, which is, it's an epic book. It's huge, but it's amazing. He wrote,
[38:55.640 --> 39:02.760] uh, sapiens as well. And Nexus is, like, it's about information. And it goes right back to, like,
[39:02.760 --> 39:08.280] the beginning of time, basically, or the beginning of humans at least, and how we communicated, you know,
[39:08.280 --> 39:15.960] through storytelling, overfires, right? And then we learned to like draw etchings and, and then
[39:15.960 --> 39:22.440] etch into like tablets and, and, and then, you know, we, the Gutenberg crack, or we created paper,
[39:22.440 --> 39:27.720] and started writing on paper, the Gutenberg press, and the, and sort of the history of information,
[39:28.760 --> 39:35.640] right up to, uh, artificial intelligence, which he calls alien intelligence. Um, and he makes the,
[39:35.640 --> 39:44.200] the, he urges people to think of AI tools, not as tools, but AI as agents, AI agents, because
[39:45.160 --> 39:53.720] for the first time in human history, we're using these agents, uh, that can actually almost,
[39:53.720 --> 39:58.840] like, think and, and, and approach things differently and problem solved differently. You know,
[39:58.840 --> 40:04.360] you use, like, Google to search something, and Google's algorithm will give you the best results
[40:04.360 --> 40:11.800] based, but, but Google works by indexing the entire internet, ex, you know, it removes some of
[40:11.800 --> 40:17.400] the stuff that, you know, you don't want to find, um, or stuff, you know, in the dark web or whatever,
[40:18.520 --> 40:23.880] um, and then Google indexes that what it thinks are the best options, but those are the options.
[40:24.600 --> 40:32.200] They're not with AI, so that's like a tool, but an agent will say, yeah, here are some options,
[40:32.200 --> 40:37.320] but actually, if you do it this way, well, this, why don't you try it this way instead? I have
[40:37.320 --> 40:44.360] another approach. Why do you do this? So it's actually providing solutions and unique approaches
[40:44.360 --> 40:51.800] to things and, and so, uh, yeah, and so no spoiler alert, but it'll be hard to sleep after you
[40:51.800 --> 40:58.920] finish that book, because it's so great. Yeah, yeah, the, the future is, uh, is, uh, yeah, it's
[40:58.920 --> 41:05.400] interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what are some, some, some things I haven't asked you about
[41:05.400 --> 41:12.120] as it pertains to, to careers and, and job search for, uh, for 88 years.
[41:13.160 --> 41:23.000] Um, let's see. So I think that, you know, a good question, or things to talk about is, you know,
[41:23.000 --> 41:33.320] maybe how I help my clients, there are some stories. Um, so I have, um, I had a client and, um,
[41:34.120 --> 41:37.800] I'll have conversations, of course, with them before they start and, you know, tell me about
[41:37.800 --> 41:45.400] yourself, you know, what's going on and I'm, I'm on a video call with this person and, um, you can
[41:45.400 --> 41:52.760] tell she's distraught. She just got fired and she's in tears and I remember the feeling when I got
[41:52.760 --> 42:02.680] fired, why is that? And it is hard and she's crying and I'm trying not to cry and she's, you know,
[42:02.680 --> 42:08.120] because I get, I can feel it in a very episodic and, um, you never have this conversation and,
[42:09.160 --> 42:17.720] she ends up signing up and she was able, like, we worked together for eight weeks and she found
[42:17.720 --> 42:26.440] a job. And, you know, typically it takes a little bit longer than that, but she really, like, she
[42:26.520 --> 42:33.160] has ADHD and I think it really comes down to, we need somebody who believes in us. We need
[42:33.640 --> 42:42.120] somebody who understands, you know, what's going on and being able to relate to her of being fired
[42:42.120 --> 42:51.240] and you don't feel good enough or you did something wrong, um, and you can't dig your way out of it,
[42:52.040 --> 43:00.520] um, can be really, really, you know, taxing, uh, mobilizing, um, there's fear, you know, we can't
[43:00.520 --> 43:09.560] provide, um, financially, like you did. So, you know, being able to be that accountability person for,
[43:09.560 --> 43:17.560] for that person really, really, um, it's a great feeling for me, but it's, I'm so glad I was able to
[43:17.560 --> 43:26.040] help her and I actually had a similar experience. So, you know, I get to be the same person as my
[43:26.040 --> 43:35.480] mentor was to me, um, where I had, um, I had gotten fired from a position that was very, very toxic
[43:36.360 --> 43:43.240] and, um, I didn't know how to advocate for myself. I didn't know how to ADHD at the time and, um,
[43:44.200 --> 43:52.040] it was probably blessing, um, but I was fired up for three months. I ended up, um, getting hired for
[43:52.040 --> 43:57.720] this position. I wasn't sure if I wanted it and I walked in, you know, to the interview, just like,
[43:58.280 --> 44:02.440] all right, let's see how this goes, which is probably the best thing ever, because I got the job,
[44:02.440 --> 44:11.320] and the, you know, the culture was amazing. My boss is awesome, um, but my executive functioning was
[44:11.320 --> 44:19.400] malfunctioning. Um, and I, I remember my boss, you know, pulling me into the office and I'm like,
[44:19.400 --> 44:24.920] he's getting fired at me. And he says, Jess, I don't know what's going on. Um, I think we're going
[44:24.920 --> 44:30.520] to have to let you go. When I first introduced, I say, you know, I have dyslexia. I'm sorry, like,
[44:31.400 --> 44:35.480] I can't figure it out. I'm sizing it up. He's like, all right, Jess, we're, we're going to work
[44:35.560 --> 44:43.400] together on this. And he helps me, it sounds like simple things, but for me, back then, it was,
[44:43.400 --> 44:48.360] you know, put things on your calendar, you know, make sure everything's on there. Let's manage your
[44:48.360 --> 44:56.840] time, or you're spending your time. Um, and knowing that he knew my secret that I was neurodivergent,
[44:56.840 --> 45:05.480] he didn't care. He wanted to help me. And um, that build at our bond where I could go to him,
[45:05.480 --> 45:10.280] he knew the amount of space I needed to do my job, because I didn't need micromanaging. I would,
[45:10.280 --> 45:16.040] you know, it would mess me up. Um, and I was, you know, I was able to make six figures in that,
[45:16.040 --> 45:23.960] that company and he still helps me today in my business. Um, so it's, it's, I have like a really
[45:23.960 --> 45:30.440] passion for this. And I'm able to do that for, for my clients now, where it's, you know,
[45:31.080 --> 45:40.120] managing your job, finding a job, you know, whatever it is. And um, yeah, I just, I'm very passionate
[45:40.120 --> 45:45.560] about it. Yeah. Now that's great. That's, that's great. For the, for the woman, uh, a client that you
[45:45.560 --> 45:50.920] had without, you know, divulging to any personal information, of course, but like, not that you would,
[45:50.920 --> 45:56.280] um, were there some specific strategies that you did with her that worked well?
[45:58.280 --> 46:06.680] Yeah. Um, so she, you know, needed the confidence in, um,
[46:08.680 --> 46:16.440] you know, the interviewing strategy. Um, she, after, you know, she was very good at talking to
[46:16.520 --> 46:22.520] people, um, things like that, but just having the confidence in what she needed to say. So, you
[46:22.520 --> 46:30.040] know, she went for a marketing, um, and, you know, healthcare. So, you know, what are the key things in
[46:31.080 --> 46:38.680] those industries or that job that you needed to talk about? Um, how did you need to follow up?
[46:39.160 --> 46:45.720] Um, what are the specific, you know, questions that are going to be asked? Um, and how do we answer
[46:45.720 --> 46:52.040] that? Also, how do we not, uh, what are, uh, what are things that we don't say, um, as well?
[46:52.680 --> 46:59.720] Um, because that can be tricky, you know, with giving too much information or, you know,
[46:59.720 --> 47:07.400] knowing when to stop talking. Um, and, and even, you know, the communication piece where,
[47:08.280 --> 47:16.040] you know, having, um, that good dialogue of, um, when you're working with your manager,
[47:16.040 --> 47:24.200] so I've, I've had another person who, you know, they want to tell all the things, right? They want
[47:24.200 --> 47:30.360] to tell them the whole story and how you got there, where you at, where you going, but, you know,
[47:30.360 --> 47:36.520] the manager is like, all right, just tell me the goal and what's next or, you know, what you completed,
[47:36.520 --> 47:45.160] you know, um, the structure, like, what, what do I need in this, um, from my manager to complete,
[47:45.160 --> 47:49.720] you know, my, my responsibilities? So it's kind of having that conversation,
[47:50.920 --> 47:59.800] what are the expectations? How do I have that conversation? Um, yeah. Do you have tips for folks who,
[48:00.520 --> 48:06.120] and, and, you know, I think this is probably pretty common, although, you know, no, no one,
[48:06.120 --> 48:12.200] no two eighties, steers, wise quarrels are the same, but we do tend to talk a lot.
[48:14.920 --> 48:21.320] Any, any tips on, I have my own around using active listening and, and, you know, I have my own
[48:21.960 --> 48:27.560] thoughts on this, but I'm curious your approach to, oh, you know, hey, Jess, I've got this interview,
[48:27.560 --> 48:32.280] I'm so excited. I'm scared I'm going to just keep talking because I'm nervous and I'm,
[48:33.240 --> 48:40.760] I talk a lot. Yeah. What do I do? Yeah. So there's a couple different things. So, um, I always have
[48:40.760 --> 48:47.080] people have like a note, uh, used to be pen out. So when you're having these conversations,
[48:47.080 --> 48:52.920] it's really, it's hard not to jump in and say, x, y, z. So I write down, you know, I say,
[48:52.920 --> 48:58.440] hey, write down a bullet point of something you want to circle back to and, um, or, you know,
[48:58.440 --> 49:06.040] elaborate on because I really want to actively listening, like you said, but you're able to just
[49:06.040 --> 49:12.760] jot down that one word and, and leave it in class down after, um, can be helpful. Another thing is,
[49:12.760 --> 49:20.520] you know, just asking, like, hey, did I answer everything there or, you know, um, which like me
[49:20.520 --> 49:27.160] to elaborate, um, is there something else you'd like me to touch up upon? Um, I think also,
[49:29.560 --> 49:36.040] practicing interviewing every day and practicing it in the mirror, um, practicing with other people,
[49:36.040 --> 49:43.240] like seeing your expression, what your face looks like, um, you know, you can tie yourself to on
[49:43.240 --> 49:48.520] your responses. Like, how long did it take you? Were you talking for like, you know,
[49:49.240 --> 49:55.640] a couple of minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes on the same subject, uh, two or three. Yeah,
[49:55.640 --> 50:01.560] that's, that's great, great advice. Uh, I love the notebook too because that notebook I do is smart,
[50:01.560 --> 50:10.280] also for the reason why you explain, of course, but also it makes the interviewer think or interviewer
[50:10.280 --> 50:15.480] think, think that like you really are keen about the position, right? Like you're, if you're taking
[50:15.480 --> 50:21.000] notes, that's a great sign that you're taking this seriously and that you really are considering it.
[50:21.000 --> 50:26.040] And also to that point, it's important to remember, and if you are nervous and an interview,
[50:26.040 --> 50:33.560] to remember that you are also interviewing them. Yes. Yes. Like, like, it's not, I mean, they will be
[50:33.560 --> 50:41.240] lucky to hire you. Yes. They will be so blessed to hire you. But so it's also you determining whether
[50:41.240 --> 50:49.000] this is somewhere you want to work, right? Yes. Exactly. And that's, so when we talk about the
[50:49.000 --> 50:56.280] non-negotiables, I take those questions and we're going to ask your manager and, you know, one of the
[50:56.280 --> 51:02.520] questions, like, I talk about is, you know, you want to ask that manager, how do they work with
[51:02.520 --> 51:09.800] their employees? And not just how do they work, like, give me examples, like, we want to expand.
[51:10.120 --> 51:15.240] And we want to listen, actively listen, like, what are they saying? Are there any red flags in
[51:15.240 --> 51:20.920] there, you know? Do they, are they actually answering your question or are they kind of going
[51:20.920 --> 51:28.680] around? Yeah. That's great. Jess, this has been awesome. And I really do appreciate your,
[51:28.680 --> 51:33.320] your insights and time. How can, how can folks get a hold of you learn more about what you do and
[51:33.320 --> 51:42.520] make these schedule a session? Yeah. So, you know, my website is just jarmo.com. J-E-S-S-J-A-R-M-O.com.
[51:43.480 --> 51:49.480] I have information on there. You could book a call and learn more there. So yeah, that would be great.
[51:49.480 --> 51:54.520] Thank you. I appreciate your time and I really enjoyed chatting with you, too.
[51:55.080 --> 51:57.560] Yeah. Thanks, Jess. This has been great. Thanks.
