PODCAST. ADHD Sleep Challenges with ADHD Coach and Sleep Expert Nathalie Chénard.
Today we speak with ADHD Coach and Sleep Expert Nathalie Chénard from nathaliechenardcoaching.com.
We begin by discussing her late diagnosis of ADHD and how it has impacted various aspects of her life, particularly sleep. Nathalie, diagnosed at age 50, shared how ADHD had been a part of her life for years, but she had only recently connected the dots after a doctor mentioned a potential link between ADHD and weight management. Initially skeptical, she researched the symptoms and realized that ADHD was indeed a part of their life. The diagnosis brought a sense of relief and clarity, helping her understand her past behaviors and challenges.
The interconnectedness of ADHD and sleep issues.
The discussion also touched on the interconnectedness of ADHD and sleep issues. Natalie highlighted that ADHD often exacerbates sleep problems, which can, in turn, worsen ADHD symptoms. This bi-directional relationship becomes more pronounced with age, making it crucial for older adults with ADHD to address sleep issues seriously. Proper sleep management is vital, not just for mental health but also for overall well-being, as poor sleep can lead to significant health risks, including cardiovascular issues and a potential increased risk of Alzheimer's disease.
The conversation underscored the importance of a holistic approach to managing sleep issues in ADHD. This includes examining anxiety, diet, exercise, sleep environment, and routines.
Understanding one's unique ADHD experience and tailoring strategies to manage it effectively is crucial. Natalie also shared insights into a coaching program she is developing, focusing on revitalizing sleep to improve the quality of life for those struggling with sleep issues, particularly those with ADHD.
Overall, the discussion emphasized the importance of understanding and addressing ADHD-related sleep problems, particularly in older adults, to enhance their quality of life and overall health.
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I really found out out of nowhere. Um,
now that I, you know, know about ADHD, I realize, you know, I've been ADHD full on all my life. But
as you know women, we tend to be diagnosed or lack of diagnosis for women, and especially, you know, back in the days, ADHD was not really a thing.
So I
had, you know, developed tons of coping mechanisms and didn't think anything of it. And then one day, I was talking to a doctor who specialized in weight management, and out of the blue, he starts, you know, mentioning that people with ADHD have, you know, likely are more likely to have, you know, weight issues and whatnot. I'm going like, Okay, that's interesting. Why is he saying anything? Why is he saying that? And He repeated it three times within the scope of half a half hour chat. I was like, oh, okay, I'm going, like, he's totally out of his mind. There's no way, like for me. ADHD was a little seven year old boy, you know, running up the walls and screaming and yelling and being totally, you know, uncontrollable. And that was never me. So I was, yeah, I think he's totally out to lunch. But it stuck with me. And when I got home that night, I said, Well, you know, let's do a little research. You know, as ADHD ers would love to do our research. So I, I started doing research and
and I want to, I was looking at the symptoms, whoa, wait, wait a minute, that is me. So I did a bunch of online tests that that same night, and all of them came back with, you know, Yeah, you sound very much like an ADHD person.
I was just taken aback. And, wow, this is just so enlightening. But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't fully convinced. So I did go to my doctor to get if you know official diagnosis and yeah, the psychiatrist was like, Yeah, you're not mildly ADHD. You're full on. So there you go, 51 and I just discovered that. And it was for me, I know for some people it can be difficult, difficult diagnosis. For me, it was so
it made my it made my day my year.
Basically, I was like, Ah, finally. And now understand it's not me being screwed up. There is a reason behind this. And
yeah, it was it. For me, it was a very joyous moment. It was like, finally I can understand myself a whole lot better, you know, just like that. And that was a powerful moment for sure. Yeah, it is, it is. And, yeah, I mean, the light bulbs totally go off, and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, everything that makes sense to me. Yeah, it's interesting that way you mentioned
initially around,
like talking about weight weight gain or weight loss, or, excuse me, weight gain is, how is that related? I haven't heard that related to ADHD. I mean, I'm assuming you're talking about maybe, like food addiction or overeating, as opposed to, like metabolism or something, or maybe I'm wrong,
to be honest with you, I don't have the, you know, the specifics on that. I never went any further, but there's, there's, but I've seen that a lot, that there is a connection between ADG and, yeah, I think the, you know,
call it, you know, for lack of a better word, you know, like the the control issue around food and yeah, and that can definitely play a
role, but I think it goes beyond that. But I don't have the specifics. I don't want to talk to it, yeah, yeah, yeah, I haven't heard that. And not that. I'm, I'm, I'm questioning it, you know, obviously, you know, I'm still learning here too, but, but I have been known to finish not one, but two kids plates at a restaurant when they don't finish their meal. I'm like, Hey, let me try one of those chicken fingers. And then I like, I'm eating all their chicken fingers, and then, like, my daughter's french fries. I'm like, Yeah, I'll take those.
And next thing I know, I've like, eaten like, four meals. And I've always done that with my wife too, where she would eat like a bird, and I'd be like, are you gonna have that other slice of pizza? And I would totally eat that too.
Luckily, that's, you know, now that I'm I'm medicated and just aware of it, all it, it makes sense. So, yeah, specifically a component of, you know, emotional regulation. I mean food, you know, comfort food, eating. And I think that that, you know, like you.
That might be where it comes into play for these years as well.
And sleep and you know, like, there's a whole lack of things that you know, like, can cause to it, but that can lead to it. I think, yeah, yeah, I definitely want to talk about sleep in a moment. But first, where, where are you from? You're from Quebec, originally. Is that correct? That is very correct, because I'm sure you can hear it from my accent.
Yeah, I'm from, I'm from, originally from Eastern Quebec. Grew up there and moved to Montreal in my late teens and and then spent most of my life in Toronto, Ontario and back in Montreal since,
well, just when is it 2021
Yeah, that's great, yeah. And I, you know, I, my, my dad was born in Quebec City and raised in Montreal, and so I have lots of, lots of family from Montreal specifically. And then he moved, like you, he moved to Toronto, although it was like, I think late 60s, and, yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it there. What brought you back to Montreal from Toronto? Besides, like, cost of living in Toronto is astronomical. Well, that that was a big part of it. It's part of the reason why I live in Nashville. Now, by the way, yeah, no, I can't understand,
to be honest, it was
the choice was almost taken out of my hands. I had a real aha moment in the summer of 2020,
whereas, after many years of that, been a consultant all of my life and in digital marketing and IT and I again, I was well installed in Toronto. I had a house that I love. I thought I was going to, you know, like spend the rest of my life there had friends, had, you know, tennis buddies. Everything you know, was going well for me, except for work. I was completely hating what I was doing for work. I used to say there was eating away at my soul and
and now that's, you know, again, those
has been creeping up for many years, my dissatisfaction with my work and
and then, you know, pandemic hit. I was I had finished a contract in the December 2019,
so just before the pandemic started, and that contract just took everything ahead of me. I was just so,
yeah, I was drained. I could not I hated the work I was doing. I did not enjoy, you know, going to work. I did not enjoy anything related to it. And I
so decided to take a long, a long break. I said, I'm going to take a few months to just get back on my, you know, on my feet, and regain joy of joy of life. And I decided to take three months off. And that which brought me to march 2020 and we all know what started in March 2020
so finding contract work was very difficult for a while and whatnot, and I started coaching for myself, as well as my coaching As my coach training. And
after a while, I was just this one night, I came back home after,
after being out all day, and I look at my place, and it was
tons of, you know, I had gone to Costco that week, you know, overspending like crazy. My place was just a bit of a disaster. And I went like, when the hell is going on? Why am I doing this to myself? And I just on that at that moment, I decided to quit my job. I just found a new contract. Quit my job, and
I, you know, I was, I realized I was not being kind to myself, and I was putting myself through hell just because of a house that I really loved. But I said, No, that's it. I cannot do that to myself anymore. So that's that same night I decided to quit this new job that I had just started and sell my house and moved to Montreal. I had a better family support network, and where the cost of living is definitely cheaper, and and I thought would be a great place to really fully establish my coaching practice, especially being bilingual.
And yeah, I just, and I just wanted to find the joy of life again. And.
And and for some reason, for me, that was Montreal at that time, and it still is Montreal. Yeah,
it is. It's a great it's a great city. Tell me about the digital marketing work that you were doing, you know, before making the pivot. Yeah, so I was doing a lot of well, for people who don't know a whole lot about digital marketing. It really, you know, started at the end of the 90s, early 2000s and that's when it was a wild west. You could do, you could do anything you wanted, really, because no one knew what they were doing, in a way. And so I started doing project management, but also got, you know, my fingers into, you know, writing, you know, like doing, being on the creative side of things, also working with coders, really developers, really closely and whatnot. And that was, you know, to my ADHD brain. That was lovely. I loved it. I was borrowing from all, like, with all guns and, and it was just, it was just so much fun and but then the you know, as any new industry,
you know, every new industry, goes through that same process where, you know, it becomes consolidated a little bit more and more and more and more. So it turned out that, you know, after, especially after the crisis of 2020.
Sorry, 2000 Oh, eight.
The you know, the industry really, really changed,
as far as I could tell anyway, whereas all you know, big conglomerates were buying all the small digital marketing and IT shops, and then also, then, you know, you could only be a project manager. Everything was siloed. You know, you are a creative you are a project manager. You went this and this and that, but you couldn't, you know, like, as a project manager, you couldn't. Also, then, you know, like, be involved in the creative side, you know, as much as you used to. And for me, that took the fun right out of it. And and then also, one thing I didn't know the time is that,
as part of coaching, often we do what we call a character strengths test, and, and my, you know, top strengths are honesty and unfairness and, and here I was trying to pedal, you know, like working on projects, you know, with no offense to any of these companies, but, you know, like Coca Cola, Nike and whatnot, you know, like, not exactly, it
wasn't feeding my, my need to to help others, and to be, to be very honest, in my delivery
and And it was just it, literally, the the more the years went on after that, the worse I felt about it. It was also then it just wasn't the same playing field for me. And, yeah, and I just couldn't, you know, get out of it, because I was like, What am I going to do? What am I going to do? I mean,
I'd already been, you know, working for myself as a consultant for all these years. But you know, where else am I going to go with that, that kind of experience, if I don't want to be in that world and that field and and, you know, it was, it was definitely weighing heavy on me for for many years, until I discovered coaching and, well, that's that speaks a whole lot more to me than anything else. And I've been, you know, I've been doing it very with, with a lot of enthusiasm
this way.
Yeah, I love, I love helping people too. And I think it's interesting that the kindred spirits sort of way of folks with ADHD, who
I've struggled when I've gotten sort of siloed in jobs, in my career, and, you know, I've been an I've been out of my own now for, like, I think it's 12 or 13 years and and It's so much better because, to your point, like, and especially having, you know, been around in the digital marketing space since the we days as well. Yeah, once you get siloed, you just, especially with ADHD, yeah, you get bored, and especially if it's something that you're not excited about your you know, and then the other side of it, of just like wanting to help people and wanting to be creative, you know, and not being able to express that is, is pretty, pretty terrible for folks with ADHD, especially so when you when you move to Quebec.
I know we did like a pre call before the podcast a little while back. But one thing I wanted to talk about is healthcare systems and how you know, now, of course, I'm in the States, and in the States, you know, the US has lots of problems with the healthcare system here, certainly, and.
Canada is always this, like bright, shining light of, you know, free healthcare for all, but challenges happen when there's not enough doctors. And I know that's something that's been coming up. Did you want to talk a lot a little bit about that, like moving from Toronto to Quebec to Montreal, and the challenges you've had with that? Yeah, definitely, it is a challenge. And yes, I know that. You know, Canada is being
prepared to be, you know, like the NL and be all as far as healthcare is concerned. And you know, it is true to a certain extent, but not, not entirely, just put it that way.
So when I got diagnosed, I was in Toronto, and it's changed now, but yeah, for for you know our US folks, Canada is divided in a bunch of provinces, and each promises its own health system. So the health system in Ontario, where Toronto is located, was
at a time, even if it doesn't feel like that long ago, it was,
I got my diagnosis very easily. I just, you know, I talked to my doctor, and within a few weeks, I was talking to the psychiatrist, and within, you know, like a week after that, I had my diagnosis. So like in the span of a month or less, I got, I got all that I needed to be able to function with the diagnosis.
But
that is when, when I landed in Quebec, health system is different here. It's very much more tax for some reason, as in, you know, like not enough providers to or seemingly not enough providers, or maybe the time is mismanaged. I don't know. I don't want to assume,
but there's, there's, it's much more difficult here to get undiagnosed. I run a support group for neurodiverse individuals in Montreal, and, yeah, the for many, it becomes a little bit overwhelming, so they don't even want to go through the process.
There's
definitely much easier to get your diagnosis if you're willing to pay for it, which you know, normally, you know, because it's a this would be covered under a health insurance here, but you know, if you know, you're going to have to wait, you know, years to get your diagnosis. And I don't know that's necessarily the case for everyone, but
I know it can take a whole lot longer to get your your assessment, whereas if you are willing to pay for it,
you can get it faster, but it's not cheap. It's in the 1000s of dollars, so not everyone is willing to go through that. And therefore, a lot of people just work under the assumption that they have ADG without necessarily getting a full on diagnosis,
which is because that doesn't allow you to, you you know, like it makes it much more difficult if you want to get accommodations at work, or, you know, get medication and whatnot. So, yeah, fortunate. Yeah, yeah, it is. I think Tommy Douglas is spinning in his in his grave, the person responsible for for socialized medicine in Canada, God bless him.
Yeah, it's, it's really, yeah, it's really a shame. But I think, I think this is happening in a lot of places. And
to your point, I mean, yes, if you can afford things, and certainly that's the case in the US, especially, you know, if you can afford it, great, but if you don't have insurance, or if you can't afford it then, and it's not just, obviously, for ADHD diagnosis, it's a lot of things. And you know, it's not to say for, for our listeners here, it's not to say that, like, if you're in a in a car accident, or you skip, slip on the ice and break your leg, I mean, it's not like Canada is going to turn you away. They will certainly take care of you in an emergency situation like that, and, you know, probably for little or no money at all. But on the flip side, yeah, things like this, where you need to get you need to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist, at least in the States, I expect in Canada, to be diagnosed with ADHD and to be able to get a prescription for meds, and then you have to keep seeing someone in order to adjust the dosage or change meds to different meds depending on, you know, side effects, or, you know, whether it's working or not. And I've experienced this myself firsthand as well. So, yeah, it's important that you know, for people listening, that if you are diagnosed with ADHD and you're being treated, you know, regardless of where you are in the world, I you know, you should be really thankful that you are able to,
yeah, yeah. And.
Just be memorable that, yeah, or remember that, you know, not every, not everybody can.
One of the topics I wanted to ask you about is you have a specialty, you know, obviously with, with ADHD coaching, but but with sleep, specifically, especially for folks after, you know, after 50.
Tell me a little bit about about that, like, what, what does that look like? Well,
ADHD and sleep issues are, you know, go hand in hand, pretty much. It's a bi directional thing, whereas, you know, your sleep issues will impact your ADHD and your ADHD will impact your sleep issues, and that can become definitely much or that can come much more to the front as you grow older.
Because, you know, we have this. We have this.
People think, you know, it's been the general knowledge, basically, that you know older people you know, don't need as much sleep, which is entirely untrue. People of you know, any age need to sleep. You know that's recommended for their for their age group, and for you know, adults and young adults, it's seven to nine hours per night. And for the donations 65 and over, it's seven to eight hours. So it's basically the same thing. And unfortunately, as you grow older, you get less and less able to to get that amount of sleep. So it can have a real, you know, like real impact on your
on your ADHD, making it even more difficult to manage.
And you know, lack of sleep can cause a whole lot of issues from, you know, like health issues, you know, risk of strokes goes up, health
cardiac issues,
you know, like, there's just so many associated with that. And also, it does, it's not fully, I don't believe it's been, you know, like an entirely proven but it seems to be clearly established that it also can increase your risk of Alzheimer's disease. So as we, as we are older, it's even more important than ever to take care of our sleep. And often people just assume, Oh, I'm getting older, therefore, you know, like it's normal for me not to sleep as well, not realizing all of the impacts that it might have on them. And that gets multiplied when you have ADHD. Yeah, in I have a presentation that I do that called the root down, where I speak, you know, about my own journey of, you know, being diagnosed with ADHD, and part of the part of that story, without getting into the whole gory details, but they're not gory.
But, you know, 2020, was a crappy year for most people, and it was, you know, there was a lot of a lot of things going on, obviously,
and in my life, there was also a tornado that destroyed my kids school, and also another storm that left 10 holes in our roof. We lost seven trees, and we were kind of locked out. We couldn't live in our house for three months. And, you know, during that time, I was also having to deal with, you know, contractors and insurance, plus, you know, global pandemic and all the other things that were affecting us. So I was, I was drinking a little too much, and
decided, you know, it's time to take some time off that, and also really just start taking, you know, this is very beginning pandemic where my wife and I both started seeing like a virtual trainer to help us, you know, really start taking our it's not that we're terribly unhealthy, but certainly become taking our health more seriously, You know, for our own immune systems,
you know, certainly in that, in that at that time. So we were doing all this stuff and so, so I quit drinking for 30 days, which is now three years plus,
started doing meditation regularly. Another thing that happened during that, that time is my, my dad had Alzheimer's and dementia, and ultimately, you know, passed away,
you know,
from that. And so
part of, part of the part of me really taking health seriously was, and this is pre being diagnosed with ADHD, of course, was researching Alzheimer's and dementia. And, you know, realizing like I don't want to get this
or these
and quitting drinking was definitely a big part of of trying to stop myself from from hopefully not.
Hopefully not getting that. But in addition to that, I read a bunch of books and learned, as you just mentioned, that that sleep you know you, as you sleep, your brain, if you have sleep apnea, your brain gets less oxygen. And lo and behold, after a sleep test, I have sleep apnea. And so that was another thing, another life change in 2020. For me was, you know, getting treated for that. So, you know, putting on the Darth Vader mask when I go to sleep. You know, Good night, honey. You know, looking like an elephant with a tiny trunk. But anyway,
so it's interesting that that you raised that point because, yeah, Sleep Apnea is also
can be part of ADHD, which is, which is really, you know, fascinating to me. What have you found, like, what? Tell me a little bit about the treatment that you provide, or the assistance as a coach that you provide people who have sleep problems.
Yes, well, first of all, let me you know, say sorry about your dad. My dad also passed from those honors. So I can there's a lot in my family as well. So I'm on the same journey as you. I don't want to have it. So what am I going to do? And, yeah, I also have sleep apnea. So yeah, full shebang yoo hoo.
But yeah, so with regards to what I do in terms of coaching, how I help people is
basically people, you know, like, if you go see a doctor, for example, you say, you know, you have sleep issues. They might send you for, you know, Sleep Apnea test, which is great. They might, you know, offer you medication for it, which is not as great. They might interesting, you know, the the it's not necessarily a very comprehensive approach. And that's where I come from, you know, like I, you know, like, through working with clients who were severely sleep deprived, and including myself, I've suffered tremendously from sleep deprivation, it's much better now, yay. But it's, it can really just annihilate your life, like it's, it's so it can be so devastating if you don't find ways to manage your sleep because it's it impacts everything you're especially if you have ADHD, it just makes it so much worse. So So I go at it from a an approach of looking at all aspects. So now I just want to mention, I'm not medical professional at all. All I work on is, you know, my approach is, you know, to look at all aspects and making sure that you don't have any, you know, like, like, for example, sleep apnea, or any restless leg syndrome, or any other you know,
conditions that will impact your sleep.
It's it's looking at it from all angles. So there's anxiety. Anxiety, especially for people with ADHD, can become a real, a real issue. It's a comorbidity that's well known, and you know, if you have racing thoughts and trying to go to sleep, it's going to be very hard for you to to fall asleep.
It's looking at it from, you know, like, what is your diet and exercise looking like if you don't have,
you know, if you don't, if you don't exercise. Exercising is, first of all, is a great way to manage your ADHD. It, it gets rid of, you know, all the extra excitement
for us. And it just it helps. Like, before I knew I had ADHD, that was definitely one of my coping mechanism. I was on the tennis court, on the hockey rink, in the hockey rink, you know, like almost way more hours than I was actually working.
That helped me.
So it's looking at your diet, your exercising. It's interesting because I didn't know about sleep
problems being associated with ADHD. It's interesting because, like all these different things that I've experienced, you know, some depression, definite anxiety. You know, distraction, all you know. But also, you know, sleep apnea, like these, these, all these, all these things kind of fit into this, as comorbidities fit into this ADHD framework, at least, you know, in my, my version, my, what you know, the ADHD, I have no couldn't be more aligned with what you just said. It is,
it is multi pronged, really like things I, you know, I look at, you know, what do you sleep quality like? Because often we think we're doing okay sleep wise, or we think we're doing really poorly sleep wise. But.
You know, where, where are the numbers? You know, like looking a little bit at the science of it. What's your environment like? There are so many things that can actually impact your your ability to sleep from, you know, what kind of mattress you know you're sleeping on? Do you know, do you have cooling bedsheets if you're really, especially if you're a woman going to menopause. You know, there's just so many things. You know, what kind of lighting Do you have?
Or, you know, lack of lighting, preferably. And you know, what kind of routine Do you maintain? Routine for sleep? Routine for people with ADHD who experience sleep issues is paramount. You really need to be able to get yourself in a mode where you can actually
know how you're going to manage your your evenings and your mornings and really your whole day in order to promote your sleep. You know how you know medication and supplements? Can you know impact how you sleep? You know, what time you take your medication at, and whatnot. Some supplements are, you know, for example, melatonin is,
you know, like a lot of people say, you know, I take melatonin, but melatonin doesn't always work for everyone, and it can actually have some negative impacts. What kind of health condition are you in? What's your I mentioned diet and exercise. What kind of self care do you? You know? Do you do if you, if you don't have anything you know, helping you being at ease,
and you know going through life more easily, that's going to impact your sleep as well. You know what kind of life events are coming your way. You know, if you're going through, you know, a birth, you know, you just had a baby. Or, you know, like you have
someone, yeah, having difficulty at work, or someone you know, pass, or whatnot, you know, like all of these things, can really have a, you know, can throw you in the in the depth of sleep issues, and it's, it's important to just have
taken an all encompassing approach to to sleep issues, because it's, it's very it's unlikely to be just one thing. I heard a great tip recently about sleeping with smartphones, which, you know, everybody knows. I think that you know, it's you're you're supposed to spend, like, the last hour before you go to sleep without screens. And yet, I've met very few people who are successful that way. I mean, unfortunately. But my whole thing, my challenge was,
is having my phone because also, the other thing is, like waking up. You know, it's good not to look at your phone first thing in the morning, because then you'll get some notification, Doom. Scroll the news, and it's not a great way to start your day.
And I heard a great tip recently, and I'm trying to remember who gave it to me to credit them. But my whole thing has always been, I've got two teenagers, and so I want the phone next to me at night for two reasons. One, you know, if the kids are out, they can reach me,
you know. Or if there's, you know, an emergency, God forbid, somebody's broken into my house, I want to be able to call, you know, 911, right away. And so I want the phone next to me, and then I guess the alarm is the other reason. But the alarm, I mean, you know, I can use an old school alarm or move the phone across the room, but I heard this great tip, which is, you switch phones with your spouse,
which I thought was such a cool idea. So if you're married or or or seeing someone, you can, you can switch their so I would sleep with my wife's phone, and she sleeps with mine, because I'm not tempted to look at her phone. I don't have any interest in it. It's her own personal phone. So I can wake up from the alarm. But the kids would call, you know, one of our numbers and both function as a phone, so it takes away the temptation of looking at notifications on her phone, which I thought was a cool idea. I love it. I never, I never heard of that
doesn't work for everyone.
Help me? Yeah, but yeah, no, it's, it's anything like that's, that's, that's where we, you know, in coaching, we we, one thing that I say to my client is that your your ADG experience is unique to you. ADHD, you know, manifests itself very differently from one person to the other, even if we have, you know, like a baseline of symptoms that are
likely to affect most people with ADHD. There's always different ways that it manifests itself, and the solutions to or the strategies to work on your ADHD need to take that into account. So I tell my clients, a solution that works for me might not work for you. So we need to, you know, like, get to the core. What.
For you in order to have a strategy that you know you're going to be able to maintain, and again, always with the understanding that EDG strategies usually don't have, you know, a very long shelf life. You know, like we we get bored with them, we need to, you know, keep on
reinventing them. Doesn't mean that. Doesn't mean that we need to throw everything, you know, like throw the baby out with the bathwater. But it needs to be, we need to be aware of that. You know what you know? How can we use our strengths? How can it make how can we make things work for us? So any strategy that works, you know, it works for you, and even if we're talking about sleep, but it's, I love it. It's brilliant. So you're right. I know, why would you get on this? You you have, you know, better intentions. Why would you look into, you know, someone else's phone, right? Yeah,
what? So as far as, as you know, personality assessments. You mentioned that that earlier, and you just mentioned again, and I think it's a personality assessments can be a great tool to, you know, I know they're not scientific, but at the same time, they help to they help to remind you of your strengths and your weaknesses as well. And sometimes, you know, depending on the the type of personality assessment you use it might include, you know, tips for, you know, relationships with people with other different types of personality, personalities, or different career paths one can take, and things like that. Are there specific personality assessments you like to use for your clients?
I don't necessarily go through personality assessments per se. One, one thing that I do with all of my clients is what's called the via Institute on character and they have a test called via Character Strengths test. And that what that does. It's a series of questions, obviously, and it,
it just basically brings to the forefront which strength. So we all, we all have, you know, a bunch of strengths, you know, but some present themselves more
depending on the situation, but also, you know, like they they're more natural to us. I think I mentioned that, you know, fairness and honesty were my two top strengths, and now that I know that I understand so many things that either didn't work or work well for me in the past.
So it's finding you know what the strengths that you have at the forefront are, and work from there. And that's very helpful in just, you know,
being able to define, you know, strategies that work for you. For example, I had a client who was a project manager, and she was, she was appalled that
one of our characters strings, our top character strength was
love and
pokey. But you know, love is, you know, and I think that describe it as,
basically, you know, love of yourself and love others and and she was like, I'm supposed to be a team leader. How can I be just about love and whatnot? And, you know, so we work on that. She thought, Should I was wrong, but so wrong for her. And then, but then, you know, when we worked on what it actually meant and how it showed up for her in her life, and how she can use that to be a whole lot more effective in our project management. And she's again, it's using it in the right context at the right time,
and now she's very happy that love is whatever.
That's great. Yeah, love's number nine for me. I was just looking at my personality, I have a document on my phone, a note that has all my different personality assessment results.
So yeah, my I'll give you my top five one, or we'll start at number five. Five is kindness, four is for forgiveness. Three is honesty, two is fairness, and one is humor. Well, we are very similar,
so that's interesting. And how have you found it? That's, you know, that's been helpful to know that. Yeah, yeah. So in, you know, in the presentation that I do called the root down. I, you know, it's, as I said, it's partly about my own experiences with, you know, being diagnosed with ADHD. So part of, part of the, the goal of it is really for organizations to hire me to deliver this presentation or for conferences, so that, you know, I can help remove the stigma of ADHD that's associated, but then also teach people about it and maybe even convince some people to get diagnosed, to see if they also have ADHD, because it helps a lot when you know and you're being treated for it. So like the three core like key takeaways from that talk.
Talk. It's not just about that, and it's for any type of audience. So the first is to know yourself, the second is to respect yourself, and the third is to connect yourself. And so the first section is about knowing yourself. And so I talk about different personality assessments and how to use those.
And so that's kind of how I've, I've used different personality assessments over the years, is really finding the commonalities between all these different assessments and seeing, you know, because it is pretty interesting, like if you do Myers Briggs and, you know, and disc and Strengths Finder, and, you know, predictive index and all these other ones, anagram you can start to get a feel for, and you look at like the results of each one, you start to get a feel for, like the commonalities they all have. And you start to realize, like, oh, wait, okay, so my, really, my strongest suit is communications. So then, you know, I do that through podcasting, through public speaking, through writing
workshops and all that. And so communication is really my number one thing when I look at the results of everything and humor. You know, I trained with Second City in Toronto, so I studied improv comedy, and have performed a lot of improv over the years, and have dabbled in stand up comedy a little as well. And so humor is but, but even as a coping mechanism, I use humor when I'm nervous, or I you know, or I'm, yeah, I don't know what to talk about. I just joke about everything and get everybody laughing, and then I get the dopamine hit from people laughing. And so I do more of that. So it's interesting. Now, especially having you know, knowledge of my ADHD,
it's interesting to kind of tie it all together. And so again, you know the root, the purpose of the root down, presentation and training is really to help anybody better understand themselves and respect themselves. And respect themselves, and then find community, and, you know, help to cure the loneliness that we all feel.
I love it. That's that's a very noble undertaking.
I think we all need a whole lot of doubt in our life, especially nowadays. Yeah, is there anything I didn't ask you about? I'm being mindful of the time here, and I want to make sure that, yeah, was there anything you wanted to share, or anything we didn't talk about that you'd like to share? I'm putting together a coaching program around sleep. It's not specific to ADHD and sleep and sleep issues, but you know, basically ADHD people just get it worse. So definitely relevant to any, anyone in of any type of,
you know, the debate neurotypical or or have ADHD, um, it's called the sleepless now, revitalize your sleep and transform your life. Because I truly believe in that. You know, if you suffer from sleep issues and 80s, you know that fixing those sleep issues is just going to make your life so much better. And you can actually, you know, start working on getting your true potential true. And if people are interested, they can go to my website, which is Natalie shanardcochain.com, yeah, I'll make sure to include links in the show notes as well. So well. This has been a blast. Thank you so much for joining me. This is, this has been great. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it, and I love the work that you're doing. Thanks making you know, like us older, you know, I don't, I shouldn't say older, but you know, people and people over feel that they have, they can get a grasp on ADHD. I think that's that's a very important message to to send out. Yeah.
