PODCAST. Meditation For Your Late-Diagnosed ADHD Mind with Jeff Warren.

EPISODE SPONSORED BY:

Inflow. Inflow helps people make sense of how ADHD traits show up in their own lives, then points them toward the support that’s right for them. For some people, that means practical CBT-based tools in the Inflow app. For others, it may mean connecting them to specialized ADHD therapy through one of Inflow’s trusted partners. Take Inflow’s free ADHD traits quiz at wisesquirrels.com/inflow.

____________

Littlebird. Littlebird is an AI assistant that already knows your work, so you can draft, plan, and stay on top of everything without having to catch it up on context. Get a free trial plus $20 off your first month of Littlebird Plus today at wisesquirrels.com/littlebird.

If you are a late-diagnosed adult navigating life with ADHD, you already know that mainstream mental health advice often fails to address the unique challenges of a neurodivergent brain. On the latest episode of the Wise Squirrels podcast, host Dave Delaney sits down with Jeff Warren, a celebrated meditation teacher and co-author with Dan Harris of the New York Times Best-Selling, Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics.

Jeff and Dave enjoy a deeply personal, maple-syrup-infused, incredibly practical conversation about rewriting the rules of mindfulness for the ADHD mind. Here is a breakdown of exactly what you can expect from this episode and why it is a must-listen for our community.

What You Will Learn in This Episode:

Jeff Warren does not teach the traditional, rigid "sit still and clear your mind" style of meditation. Instead, as a creator living with both ADHD and bipolar 2, he shares how he has adapted mindfulness to work with hyper-associative wiring rather than against it.

Non-judgmental awareness in meditation for ADHD

Here is what is on the itinerary for this episode:

• The Reality of ADHD and Trauma: Jeff opens up about his personal history, including a severe 30-foot fall in Montreal that resulted in a broken neck and a head injury a trauma that appeared to cause his childhood ADHD symptoms to intensify dramatically as an adult.

• Reframing Distraction as a "Wake-Up Bell": Rather than viewing the moment your mind wanders as a failure, Jeff teaches listeners to reframe the "pop out" of distraction as a natural, celebratory reminder that you have returned to the present moment.

• Awareness as a "Solvent": Discover how bringing conscious, non-judgmental awareness to your inner world can act as a solvent, effectively dissolving neurotic thoughts, quieting negative self-talk, and helping to integrate subconscious patterns.

• Building Your "Personal Medicine Inventory": Learn how to document and deliberately protect the daily, self-regulating activities that naturally soothe your nervous system, whether that is a walk in nature, a specific hobby, or quiet time spent completely offline.

• An ADHD-Friendly Guided Meditation: Stick around until the end of the episode, where Jeff guides Dave and fellow Wise Squirrels through a short, custom-tailored mini-meditation explicitly designed to help an ADHD mind manage feelings of urgency and restlessness.

Paid Substack Community Members don’t miss Jeff’s guided meditation video. WATCH IT HERE.

Radical self-acceptance regardless of ADHD

For late-diagnosed adults, the biggest hurdle to mental wellness is often the exhausting history of masking and internalizing self-criticism. This episode completely dismantles the idea that you need to fix or quiet your Wise Squirrel brain to experience peace.

You should tune in because Jeff and Dave offer an authentic, peer-to-peer exploration of radical self-acceptance. They explore how acceptance does not mean being passive or condoning your mistakes; rather, it provides a clean, realistic signal of reality so you can make intelligent, effective choices in your life.

Filled with shared nostalgia, practical strategies, and zero clinical lecturing, this episode is the tactical roadmap you need to build emotional regulation, slow down, and practice true self-grace.

• Transcript

  00:00.000 --> 00:03.720]  And I'll tell you, you do not have to sit down and struggle to focus on your breath.

  [00:03.720 --> 00:07.240]  You know, you do not have to have some special mantra or visualization.

  [00:07.240 --> 00:10.320]  You don't have to be authorized by XYZ teacher.

  [00:10.320 --> 00:13.800]  Once you understand the skill of equanimity and skill of concentration,

  [00:13.800 --> 00:15.680]  skill of clarity and how they build,

  [00:15.680 --> 00:20.400]  you can find it in all kinds of different everyday activities and habits.

  [00:20.400 --> 00:22.480]  And you can get ever more to that place.

  [00:31.000 --> 00:38.000]  Welcome to Why Squirrels, the podcast for late diagnosed adults with ADHD.

  [00:38.000 --> 00:40.000]  I'm your host, Dave Delaney.

  [00:40.000 --> 00:43.400]  If you've ever been a little skeptical of meditation,

  [00:43.400 --> 00:51.200]  this is a prime example of tuning into something to better yourself and I promise it will help you.

  [00:51.200 --> 00:54.800]  Jeff Warren is a meditation teacher and writer.

  [00:54.800 --> 01:00.200]  He's known for his beautifully lucid and occasionally baffling style of teaching.

  [01:00.200 --> 01:03.800]  He brings a lot of humor and you're going to hear that today.

  [01:03.800 --> 01:09.200]  He's the co-author of the New York Times bestselling meditation for fidgety skeptics.

  [01:09.200 --> 01:12.800]  And he's the co-host of the Mindbod adventure pod.

  [01:12.800 --> 01:17.600]  Jeff's do nothing project, streams for free every Sunday night.

  [01:17.600 --> 01:23.000]  His guided meditations reach millions through the happier and calm apps,

  [01:23.000 --> 01:26.000]  as well as through his sub-stack home base.

  [01:26.000 --> 01:31.200]  Jeff's mission is to empower people to care for their mental health through the realistic

  [01:31.200 --> 01:36.400]  and sometimes giddy exploration of meditation and personal growth practices.

  [01:36.400 --> 01:41.000]  He's proudly ADHD, fellow Why Squirrel, and he's bipolar,

  [01:41.000 --> 01:45.600]  and he champions a neurodivergent outlook on life and practice.

  [01:45.600 --> 01:49.400]  I've even included a meditation at the end of this episode

  [01:49.400 --> 01:53.200]  and you can tune in and enjoy it as well.

  [01:53.200 --> 01:56.400]  Why Squirrel is sponsored by our friends at Inflow.

  [01:56.400 --> 02:03.600]  Inflow helps people like you make sense of how ADHD traits show up in your own lives.

  [02:03.600 --> 02:08.600]  What they do is they have a wonderful free ADHD traits quiz.

  [02:08.600 --> 02:12.000]  And when you do the quiz, you answer a few questions.

  [02:12.000 --> 02:16.400]  It gives you some strategic ways to help yourself.

  [02:16.400 --> 02:20.200]  And then they point you toward the support that's right for you.

  [02:20.200 --> 02:24.400]  For some people, that means practical CBT-based tools

  [02:24.400 --> 02:26.400]  and they're right in the Inflow app.

  [02:26.400 --> 02:31.400]  For others, it may mean connecting them to specialized ADHD therapy

  [02:31.400 --> 02:34.400]  through one of Inflow's trusted partners.

  [02:34.400 --> 02:37.400]  And you can find out more about that, give it a whirl.

  [02:37.400 --> 02:40.400]  And when you do, not only are you helping yourself,

  [02:40.400 --> 02:43.400]  but you're also helping me by supporting the podcast

  [02:43.400 --> 02:46.400]  because I wouldn't bring on sponsors I didn't believe in

  [02:46.400 --> 02:48.400]  and I didn't use myself.

  [02:48.400 --> 02:51.400]  So I do highly recommend Inflow.

  [02:51.400 --> 02:56.400]  And you can find them at ysquirrels.com slash Inflow.

  [02:56.400 --> 03:00.400]  And if you've been listening for a number of episodes recently,

  [03:00.400 --> 03:02.400]  we have a wonderful sponsor named Little Bird

  [03:02.400 --> 03:07.400]  and Little Bird is an AI assistant that already knows your work.

  [03:07.400 --> 03:10.400]  So you can draft and plan and you can stay on top of everything

  [03:10.400 --> 03:13.400]  without having to catch it up on context.

  [03:13.400 --> 03:16.400]  If you've been using LLMs for a while,

  [03:16.400 --> 03:19.400]  you may have found that, yeah, they don't always remember

  [03:19.400 --> 03:22.400]  where you were or the information you've given it

  [03:22.400 --> 03:23.400]  and things like that.

  [03:23.400 --> 03:26.400]  Oftentimes what happens is you end up starting from scratch

  [03:26.400 --> 03:28.400]  or at least I used to.

  [03:28.400 --> 03:31.400]  What I love about Little Bird is, as I said, it has a memory.

  [03:31.400 --> 03:33.400]  And so it keeps track of everything

  [03:33.400 --> 03:36.400]  and of course following privacy guidelines so don't panic.

  [03:36.400 --> 03:39.400]  It's an AI assistant that keeps you on track

  [03:39.400 --> 03:41.400]  and it has these built-in routines.

  [03:41.400 --> 03:44.400]  So each morning I have a morning routine

  [03:44.400 --> 03:47.400]  and it tells me what my winds were yesterday

  [03:47.400 --> 03:49.400]  and what I need to be focused on today.

  [03:49.400 --> 03:51.400]  Like today is my podcast day.

  [03:51.400 --> 03:54.400]  Little Bird is offering a free trial

  [03:54.400 --> 03:58.400]  and $20 off your first month of Little Bird Plus.

  [03:58.400 --> 04:03.400]  And you can find that at ysquirrels.com slash Little Bird.

  [04:04.400 --> 04:09.400]  And we thank Little Bird and Inflow for sponsoring Y Squirrels.

  [04:09.400 --> 04:12.400]  And without further ado, here's Jeff.

  [04:15.400 --> 04:18.400]  Is there more ADHD out there because of the culture

  [04:18.400 --> 04:20.400]  because of, you know, environment who knows what,

  [04:20.400 --> 04:22.400]  there's just more humans with ADHD?

  [04:22.400 --> 04:26.400]  Or is it simply that there's better diagnostic tools

  [04:26.400 --> 04:29.400]  to recognize a baseline level of ADHD humans

  [04:29.400 --> 04:30.400]  that's always been there?

  [04:30.400 --> 04:31.400]  Yeah.

  [04:31.400 --> 04:33.400]  But I do wonder if you had an opinion on that.

  [04:33.400 --> 04:34.400]  I do.

  [04:34.400 --> 04:36.400]  And yeah, and also to point out that it is an opinion

  [04:36.400 --> 04:38.400]  from what I've learned because I'm not a doctor

  [04:38.400 --> 04:40.400]  and I don't pretend to be one on the internet.

  [04:40.400 --> 04:42.400]  So I always like to add that.

  [04:42.400 --> 04:43.400]  And one, yes.

  [04:43.400 --> 04:44.400]  Yeah.

  [04:44.400 --> 04:45.400]  Yeah.

  [04:45.400 --> 04:46.400]  There's enough of that out there.

  [04:46.400 --> 04:47.400]  So to answer your question,

  [04:47.400 --> 04:50.400]  there's not more ADHD, but there's more diagnosis.

  [04:50.400 --> 04:54.400]  And because the stigmas are being removed

  [04:54.400 --> 04:57.400]  because mental health is being embraced,

  [04:57.400 --> 05:00.400]  more and more women are being diagnosed

  [05:00.400 --> 05:01.400]  because they were missed.

  [05:01.400 --> 05:03.400]  Women tend to be more predominantly

  [05:03.400 --> 05:06.400]  inattentive rather than hyperactive impulsive,

  [05:06.400 --> 05:08.400]  which we can talk more about.

  [05:08.400 --> 05:10.400]  And because of that, in school,

  [05:10.400 --> 05:12.400]  like the women were playing with their hair

  [05:12.400 --> 05:15.400]  kind of daydreaming and not disrupting the class,

  [05:15.400 --> 05:17.400]  more and more women are taking their kids

  [05:17.400 --> 05:19.400]  to the doctor, usually,

  [05:19.400 --> 05:20.400]  and the kid gets diagnosed.

  [05:20.400 --> 05:22.400]  And then as they go through treatment

  [05:22.400 --> 05:23.400]  and learn about it,

  [05:23.400 --> 05:24.400]  they're like, wait a minute.

  [05:24.400 --> 05:25.400]  This is me.

  [05:25.400 --> 05:28.400]  So many more women are being diagnosed now.

  [05:28.400 --> 05:31.400]  I think there's always been around the same number.

  [05:31.400 --> 05:33.400]  At least that's my understanding,

  [05:33.400 --> 05:34.400]  but it has been around forever.

  [05:34.400 --> 05:35.400]  So there's that as well.

  [05:35.400 --> 05:36.400]  So.

  [05:36.400 --> 05:37.400]  Yeah.

  [05:37.400 --> 05:38.400]  Very cool.

  [05:38.400 --> 05:39.400]  Yeah.

  [05:39.400 --> 05:40.400]  I think it's fascinating to think about it.

  [05:40.400 --> 05:41.400]  I mean, honestly,

  [05:41.400 --> 05:43.400]  it used now, everyone talks about ADHD

  [05:43.400 --> 05:45.400]  and being neurodivergent,

  [05:45.400 --> 05:46.400]  this kind of thing.

  [05:46.400 --> 05:48.400]  It's like, it used just to be called being an artist.

  [05:48.400 --> 05:50.400]  It's like being creative, you know?

  [05:50.400 --> 05:52.400]  Or like, or whatever.

  [05:52.400 --> 05:55.400]  Like the hunter, the hunter gather in a farmer's world

  [05:55.400 --> 05:57.400]  as what's his name puts it.

  [05:57.400 --> 05:58.400]  That's right.

  [05:58.400 --> 06:01.400]  Because I have like all so many of my artist friends

  [06:01.400 --> 06:02.400]  and creative friends.

  [06:02.400 --> 06:03.400]  It's like, yeah.

  [06:03.400 --> 06:05.400]  They're all ADHD.

  [06:05.400 --> 06:07.400]  It's somewhere another or their autistic.

  [06:07.400 --> 06:09.400]  You know, or there's some weird combo.

  [06:09.400 --> 06:12.400]  They're all ADHD or, you know, anyways.

  [06:12.400 --> 06:13.400]  Yeah.

  [06:13.400 --> 06:14.400]  No, absolutely.

  [06:14.400 --> 06:15.400]  Yeah.

  [06:15.400 --> 06:17.400]  One question I have for you just to also to kind of kick things off

  [06:17.400 --> 06:19.400]  is what's the best terrible fantasy book you've read lately?

  [06:19.400 --> 06:20.400]  Oh my God, dude.

  [06:20.400 --> 06:22.400]  I read so many.

  [06:22.400 --> 06:24.400]  Actually, I'm reading a superb one now.

  [06:24.400 --> 06:26.400]  How the Paladin of Souls.

  [06:26.400 --> 06:29.400]  By Louise Bujold McMaster.

  [06:29.400 --> 06:30.400]  I forget her.

  [06:30.400 --> 06:31.400]  I don't even know her name really.

  [06:31.400 --> 06:33.400]  I often don't pay attention to the names.

  [06:33.400 --> 06:36.400]  But I just discovered she's like an old school sci-fi fantasy writer.

  [06:36.400 --> 06:39.400]  But she's kind of at a height of her powers with these ones.

  [06:39.400 --> 06:42.400]  And I mean, I try to read better.

  [06:42.400 --> 06:44.400]  I like the writing to be good.

  [06:44.400 --> 06:46.400]  You know, I was an English major back in the day.

  [06:46.400 --> 06:50.400]  But I will read some trashy David Gamel sword and sorcery.

  [06:50.400 --> 06:52.400]  Exciting situation.

  [06:52.400 --> 06:54.400]  You know, I just like I like the action.

  [06:54.400 --> 06:57.400]  And I like fantasy world sci-fi worlds.

  [06:57.400 --> 06:59.400]  I like just the imaginative side of it.

  [06:59.400 --> 07:01.400]  You know, but I read a lot of literature too.

  [07:01.400 --> 07:02.400]  Do you struggle with reading?

  [07:02.400 --> 07:03.400]  Do you?

  [07:03.400 --> 07:05.400]  I don't mean reading as in just comprehension,

  [07:05.400 --> 07:08.400]  but rather just reading a book like.

  [07:08.400 --> 07:09.400]  Yeah.

  [07:09.400 --> 07:10.400]  No.

  [07:10.400 --> 07:11.400]  I am.

  [07:11.400 --> 07:13.400]  I love my hyper focus.

  [07:13.400 --> 07:14.400]  Like I.

  [07:14.400 --> 07:16.400]  I've been a reader since I was a little kid.

  [07:16.400 --> 07:22.400]  I mean, I turned through two books a week, nonfiction fiction, complicated, stupid.

  [07:22.400 --> 07:25.400]  I mean, I don't, if it's too stupid, I'm not interested.

  [07:25.400 --> 07:26.400]  But you know what I mean?

  [07:26.400 --> 07:27.400]  Like easy read.

  [07:27.400 --> 07:29.400]  But I just, it's my hyper focus.

  [07:29.400 --> 07:32.400]  I think it was my strategy when I was really young.

  [07:32.400 --> 07:35.400]  I was, I was also really sensitive.

  [07:35.400 --> 07:39.400]  And I was really uncomfortable in a lot of social situations.

  [07:39.400 --> 07:41.400]  And I just had a lot of intensity at home.

  [07:41.400 --> 07:43.400]  I just buried myself in books.

  [07:43.400 --> 07:45.400]  And I didn't sleep much.

  [07:45.400 --> 07:46.400]  So I would just read at night.

  [07:46.400 --> 07:49.400]  And I find that's not, I find I get very absorbed.

  [07:49.400 --> 07:51.400]  In fact, I get so hyper focused.

  [07:51.400 --> 07:55.400]  It's hard to pull out of my books when I need to do other things.

  [07:55.400 --> 08:00.400]  And so I use my mindfulness practice there to kind of help me notice.

  [08:00.400 --> 08:03.400]  You know, when I know I need to pull out,

  [08:03.400 --> 08:06.400]  I have kind of more of a peripheral awareness around that.

  [08:06.400 --> 08:09.400]  But know that for whatever reason that hasn't been much.

  [08:09.400 --> 08:11.400]  Other things definitely get that.

  [08:11.400 --> 08:14.400]  The reading thing is, no, it's good.

  [08:14.400 --> 08:15.400]  I'm good.

  [08:15.400 --> 08:18.400]  I can fucking, I can read a book with bombs going off.

  [08:18.400 --> 08:19.400]  Yeah.

  [08:19.400 --> 08:21.400]  But let's hope we never have to face that.

  [08:21.400 --> 08:24.400]  The consciousness explorers club.

  [08:24.400 --> 08:31.400]  Is that was that sort of the gateway into discovering sort of mindfulness as you were

  [08:31.400 --> 08:33.400]  or meditation as you were sort of,

  [08:33.400 --> 08:36.400]  because you were an investigative reporter, right?

  [08:36.400 --> 08:37.400]  Or journalist rather.

  [08:37.400 --> 08:41.400]  And was it at that time that you were sort of studying this?

  [08:41.400 --> 08:42.400]  Yeah.

  [08:42.400 --> 08:43.400]  Okay.

  [08:43.400 --> 08:45.400]  Well, so the history, I'll just give you a snapshot.

  [08:45.400 --> 08:46.400]  Yeah.

  [08:46.400 --> 08:47.400]  Yeah.

  [08:47.400 --> 08:49.400]  First of all, just rolling the ADHD as well,

  [08:49.400 --> 08:50.400]  because it's relevant.

  [08:50.400 --> 08:55.400]  So I think I was a kind of ADHD classic ADHD kid impulsive through my youth,

  [08:55.400 --> 08:56.400]  whatever.

  [08:56.400 --> 09:00.400]  And then I feel like it's, I started to get more regulated actually with my attention.

  [09:00.400 --> 09:04.400]  I feel like I, I might have been one of those people who had ADHD as a kid.

  [09:04.400 --> 09:07.400]  So I got resolved as an adult.

  [09:07.400 --> 09:12.400]  However, in my end of my first year university, I was a major party animal.

  [09:12.400 --> 09:17.400]  I just did a shit ton of drugs and one night and like I was wasted too.

  [09:17.400 --> 09:19.400]  And I climbed this tree.

  [09:19.400 --> 09:20.400]  This is a Montreal.

  [09:20.400 --> 09:23.400]  I climbed this tree way as like 30 feet up.

  [09:23.400 --> 09:25.400]  And it was like freezing rain.

  [09:25.400 --> 09:26.400]  And it broke.

  [09:26.400 --> 09:27.400]  The branch broke.

  [09:27.400 --> 09:28.400]  And I fell.

  [09:28.400 --> 09:30.400]  And I broke my neck in two places.

  [09:30.400 --> 09:31.400]  And I got a major head injury.

  [09:31.400 --> 09:36.400]  And after that, my ADHD came back roaring back.

  [09:36.400 --> 09:37.400]  Maybe it was still there.

  [09:37.400 --> 09:38.400]  I don't know.

  [09:38.400 --> 09:40.400]  But like all of a sudden I was so much more associative.

  [09:40.400 --> 09:42.400]  I was so much more.

  [09:42.400 --> 09:44.400]  It was much harder to organize.

  [09:44.400 --> 09:49.400]  I had to like re sort out all my systems of study and work because I was,

  [09:49.400 --> 09:50.400]  I couldn't read.

  [09:50.400 --> 09:51.400]  It's a particular reading.

  [09:51.400 --> 09:54.400]  I couldn't read systematically the way I was before.

  [09:54.400 --> 09:56.400]  Maybe there was a bit of disruption.

  [09:56.400 --> 09:58.400]  Then I couldn't, I certainly couldn't write the way I could before.

  [09:59.400 --> 10:01.400]  My study habits.

  [10:01.400 --> 10:05.400]  You know, I had been a really good student even though I was pretty delinquent.

  [10:05.400 --> 10:08.400]  But I just was, I found academics not hard.

  [10:08.400 --> 10:10.400]  But after that I found much harder.

  [10:10.400 --> 10:13.400]  So I got really interested in what happened to my brain.

  [10:13.400 --> 10:15.400]  How did my consciousness change?

  [10:15.400 --> 10:20.400]  I became much more obviously ADHD and my friends all noticed it.

  [10:20.400 --> 10:22.400]  And so that led to an abiding interest.

  [10:22.400 --> 10:24.400]  Somehow I managed to get through school.

  [10:24.400 --> 10:25.400]  But it was harder now.

  [10:25.400 --> 10:30.400]  And it led to this, you know, then I just took off for 15 years and did whatever I wanted to do

  [10:30.400 --> 10:32.400]  and lived in various countries and just had adventures.

  [10:32.400 --> 10:33.400]  Classic ADHD.

  [10:33.400 --> 10:35.400]  I just was seeking novelty.

  [10:35.400 --> 10:39.400]  Lots of, you know, romances and lived in different countries and did different jobs.

  [10:39.400 --> 10:41.400]  And it was all awesome.

  [10:41.400 --> 10:47.400]  But I was also suffering because I was, I couldn't stay with things.

  [10:47.400 --> 10:52.400]  I, you know, I kept, you know, that start stop, start stop.

  [10:53.400 --> 10:57.400]  And starting all these things, never finishing them, just feeling very lost.

  [10:57.400 --> 11:03.400]  And eventually I got a random, randomly got offered job at the CBC in Canada,

  [11:03.400 --> 11:08.400]  the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, because I had met some folks in France and they wanted me.

  [11:08.400 --> 11:11.400]  And so I ended up being a radio, but I wasn't investing in journalists.

  [11:11.400 --> 11:12.400]  I was a radio producer.

  [11:12.400 --> 11:16.400]  So I was a journalist, but I worked in radio for the current, for the current.

  [11:16.400 --> 11:18.400]  Yeah, for the current and for ideas.

  [11:18.400 --> 11:20.400]  Are you based in Canada or?

  [11:20.400 --> 11:21.400]  I'm from Toronto.

  [11:21.400 --> 11:22.400]  So yeah.

  [11:22.400 --> 11:23.400]  Cool.

  [11:23.400 --> 11:27.400]  So I did, I ended up at the current, ended up at CBC.

  [11:27.400 --> 11:30.400]  But and my main thing I was interested in the mind.

  [11:30.400 --> 11:33.400]  I was interested in all ideas stuff, but I really wanted to know about neuroscience.

  [11:33.400 --> 11:34.400]  The mind always going on there.

  [11:34.400 --> 11:39.400]  So I used to do, I did a bunch of episodes on that and would often pitch shows on that.

  [11:39.400 --> 11:44.400]  And that's where, at one of my shows, I pitch was on, on neurofeedback.

  [11:44.400 --> 11:46.400]  And I went in as a guinea pig.

  [11:46.400 --> 11:47.400]  And that's for the first time.

  [11:47.400 --> 11:48.400]  This is like 2001.

  [11:48.400 --> 11:51.400]  And everyone, it kind of would have said I was ADHD anyway.

  [11:51.400 --> 11:53.400]  But of course, people weren't talking about it as much back then.

  [11:53.400 --> 11:54.400]  This is 25 years ago.

  [11:54.400 --> 11:55.400]  Yeah.

  [11:55.400 --> 11:56.400]  I did this.

  [11:56.400 --> 11:57.400]  I went in just to be a guinea pig.

  [11:57.400 --> 12:01.400]  And the woman was like, you are, we were definitely ADHD.

  [12:01.400 --> 12:04.400]  Like I'll cross, I'll like on all measures here.

  [12:04.400 --> 12:06.400]  Like all self report measures, everything.

  [12:06.400 --> 12:07.400]  And just by watching you.

  [12:07.400 --> 12:10.400]  And I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense.

  [12:10.400 --> 12:12.400]  And so I started getting more understanding of that.

  [12:12.400 --> 12:15.400]  I started to read books about ADHD and how to manage it.

  [12:15.400 --> 12:18.400]  But meanwhile, I started to realize that I was really having a hard time.

  [12:18.400 --> 12:20.400]  I had a lot of anxiety.

  [12:20.400 --> 12:21.400]  I was in my mind.

  [12:21.400 --> 12:22.400]  I couldn't control it.

  [12:22.400 --> 12:23.400]  It was shooting everywhere.

  [12:23.400 --> 12:28.400]  So I decided to write a book about consciousness as one does.

  [12:28.400 --> 12:33.400]  At integrated my interest in dreaming and sleep and my new interest in meditation

  [12:33.400 --> 12:35.400]  and the neurofeedback piece.

  [12:35.400 --> 12:38.400]  And it was sort of like a book became the head trip.

  [12:38.400 --> 12:41.400]  It was sort of about the journey of trying to understand myself.

  [12:41.400 --> 12:44.400]  The journey of trying to understand how consciousness changes over 24 hours.

  [12:44.400 --> 12:49.400]  Using the vehicle of myself and realizing how uncomfortable my life had become in a way.

  [12:49.400 --> 12:51.400]  And that's when I started meditating.

  [12:51.400 --> 12:54.400]  So that was like 2002 or something.

  [12:54.400 --> 12:58.400]  I started going to retreats, found it hard as an ADHD person.

  [12:58.400 --> 13:01.400]  Because the way it was framed was not that helpful.

  [13:01.400 --> 13:05.400]  Like getting really good at concentration is not necessarily going to be in someone's wheelhouse.

  [13:05.400 --> 13:08.400]  Unless you got a fiber focus, which I did.

  [13:08.400 --> 13:10.400]  I was able to use a bit in that service.

  [13:11.400 --> 13:12.400]  It's taking me a long time.

  [13:12.400 --> 13:14.400]  I can disambiguate all this shit for people if they want.

  [13:14.400 --> 13:15.400]  How to make meditation work.

  [13:15.400 --> 13:17.400]  But anyway, blah blah blah.

  [13:17.400 --> 13:22.400]  Lots of retreats, lots of teachers started getting a good sense of it myself.

  [13:22.400 --> 13:25.400]  Never in a billion years thought I would teach meditation.

  [13:25.400 --> 13:27.400]  Because it just seemed like why would I want to do that?

  [13:27.400 --> 13:29.400]  It seemed like cult leaders.

  [13:29.400 --> 13:33.400]  And I just had no one become being someone's guru and it wasn't my thing.

  [13:33.400 --> 13:36.400]  But I was good at it.

  [13:36.400 --> 13:40.400]  You know, I started conscious explorers club was a peer to peer.

  [13:40.400 --> 13:42.400]  Let's hang out, do practice together.

  [13:42.400 --> 13:44.400]  No one's that there's no special teacher here.

  [13:44.400 --> 13:46.400]  We're all friends and it was in the market too.

  [13:46.400 --> 13:47.400]  In Kansas and market.

  [13:47.400 --> 13:49.400]  Yeah, because I had a lot of big community of writers.

  [13:49.400 --> 13:54.400]  A lot of people showed up musicians, writers, you know, doctors, weirdos, mystics,

  [13:54.400 --> 13:56.400]  all the people that meant to help that she was trying to show up.

  [13:56.400 --> 13:58.400]  That ended up being an issue downstream.

  [13:58.400 --> 13:59.400]  But it just got big fast.

  [13:59.400 --> 14:01.400]  But there was no teacher.

  [14:01.400 --> 14:03.400]  It was just like, hey, well, let's just practice together.

  [14:03.400 --> 14:06.400]  But I got groomed for that role.

  [14:06.400 --> 14:08.400]  My own teacher kept saying, you know, you're just good at it.

  [14:08.400 --> 14:09.400]  Why don't you do this more?

  [14:09.400 --> 14:12.400]  So I started kind of guiding more.

  [14:12.400 --> 14:16.400]  But again, not as like, I have the answer more like, hey, this is what I'm doing.

  [14:16.400 --> 14:17.400]  This is what helps me.

  [14:17.400 --> 14:18.400]  What are you doing?

  [14:18.400 --> 14:20.400]  So this kind of more peer to peer vibe.

  [14:20.400 --> 14:21.400]  And it just got momentum.

  [14:21.400 --> 14:25.400]  Got bigger and bigger and then eventually Dan Harris.

  [14:25.400 --> 14:27.400]  He discovered me or whatever.

  [14:27.400 --> 14:28.400]  And then calm discovered me.

  [14:28.400 --> 14:30.400]  And so then now I'm more out there.

  [14:30.400 --> 14:32.400]  But I didn't expect to ever be out there about that.

  [14:32.400 --> 14:34.400]  I thought this was sort of like a side show.

  [14:34.400 --> 14:35.400]  Yeah.

  [14:35.400 --> 14:38.400]  And I would go back to writing big complicated book.

  [14:38.400 --> 14:40.400]  Because that's what I wanted to write.

  [14:40.400 --> 14:42.400]  But guess what I suck at writing the complicated books.

  [14:42.400 --> 14:44.400]  Because I have fucking ADHD.

  [14:44.400 --> 14:47.400]  It's a nightmare for me, even though I wrote one.

  [14:47.400 --> 14:48.400]  So yeah, there we go.

  [14:48.400 --> 14:49.400]  That's amazing.

  [14:49.400 --> 14:53.400]  And just so I'm clear, how old were you when you were diagnosed, like,

  [14:53.400 --> 14:55.400]  formerly diagnosed with ADHD?

  [14:55.400 --> 14:59.400]  Well, that would have been in, I guess it was like,

  [14:59.400 --> 15:04.400]  2001 was the official diagnosis.

  [15:04.400 --> 15:07.400]  So that would have been, I was 30.

  [15:07.400 --> 15:09.400]  But I, you know, and I look like I said, I look back.

  [15:09.400 --> 15:12.400]  I'm like, I can see the, and I'm also bipolar.

  [15:12.400 --> 15:15.400]  And I didn't know that until, like, I'm like,

  [15:15.400 --> 15:17.400]  mild bipolar, I'm not the, the really intense one.

  [15:17.400 --> 15:20.400]  I'm the, I think it's bipolar, too, whatever.

  [15:20.400 --> 15:26.400]  And I got diagnosed for that around, like, 2018.

  [15:26.400 --> 15:27.400]  Yeah, I didn't know.

  [15:27.400 --> 15:31.400]  And so I had, there was a mood element to the mood instability thing.

  [15:31.400 --> 15:34.400]  And so those two combining are pretty intense.

  [15:34.400 --> 15:36.400]  Like, I've got to handle on it now.

  [15:36.400 --> 15:40.400]  But, you know, once I got more settled in my, by my early 30s,

  [15:40.400 --> 15:45.400]  it was pretty, it was pretty smooth sailing from there in terms of physical trauma.

  [15:45.400 --> 15:48.400]  But I still had all kinds of mental emotional derangements.

  [15:48.400 --> 15:50.400]  Did you have an aha moment?

  [15:50.400 --> 15:53.400]  Or did you suddenly find that, like, oh, wait, this is actually helping.

  [15:53.400 --> 15:54.400]  Yeah.

  [15:54.400 --> 15:57.400]  Well, just, I will respond to that.

  [15:57.400 --> 16:00.400]  Just curious for you, you, so what have you found?

  [16:00.400 --> 16:04.400]  As someone with ADHD, and a lot of people say, oh, I mean,

  [16:04.400 --> 16:05.400]  yeah, I can't meditate.

  [16:05.400 --> 16:06.400]  But yet, you clearly meditate.

  [16:06.400 --> 16:11.400]  What do you do, first of all, how do you, how have you,

  [16:11.400 --> 16:15.400]  have you made any accommodations to your practice to make it work for you?

  [16:15.400 --> 16:19.400]  In other words, because it may work differently for you than does for others.

  [16:19.400 --> 16:21.400]  And what benefits have you noticed from doing it?

  [16:21.400 --> 16:22.400]  So three of those questions.

  [16:22.400 --> 16:23.400]  Look at me interviewing you.

  [16:23.400 --> 16:24.400]  Yeah.

  [16:24.400 --> 16:25.400]  No, good questions.

  [16:25.400 --> 16:30.400]  The benefits, I think, primarily, is the ability to reframe my thoughts

  [16:30.400 --> 16:32.400]  by slowing myself down enough?

  [16:32.400 --> 16:35.400]  Because otherwise, my mind's just racing.

  [16:35.400 --> 16:38.400]  And I think I'm an idiot or a matured, or whatever.

  [16:38.400 --> 16:42.400]  And accept that and move on to some other, you know, thing.

  [16:42.400 --> 16:46.400]  And what I have found is with the ability to be mindful,

  [16:46.400 --> 16:49.400]  rather than, you know, as Ellen Langer calls mine, you know,

  [16:49.400 --> 16:52.400]  you're either, you're mindless or you're mindful, right?

  [16:52.400 --> 16:55.400]  I mean, we're all mindless most of the day, probably.

  [16:55.400 --> 16:59.400]  But being mindful in that moment really helps to slow yourself down.

  [16:59.400 --> 17:02.400]  And I think that then get, and after the diagnosis, one big thing,

  [17:02.400 --> 17:05.400]  and one big tip I always give people is to give yourself grace.

  [17:05.400 --> 17:08.400]  Like, life is only going to be better at this point now,

  [17:08.400 --> 17:12.400]  because you're, you can see your life through the lens of ADHD.

  [17:12.400 --> 17:16.400]  And when you start studying and learning about it and ways to serve yourself

  [17:16.400 --> 17:20.400]  and help yourself, meditation being the big part of that, in my opinion,

  [17:20.400 --> 17:24.400]  you can, you can start, yeah, slowing down and giving yourself grace

  [17:24.400 --> 17:27.400]  and accepting yourself and giving yourself a bit of a break.

  [17:27.400 --> 17:29.400]  So, so all of that.

  [17:29.400 --> 17:34.400]  In practice, I do different practices.

  [17:34.400 --> 17:37.400]  You know, as we mentioned before, we hit record.

  [17:37.400 --> 17:40.400]  Joseph Gould's team was a guest on the podcast.

  [17:40.400 --> 17:43.400]  And, man, I mean, just such an incredible guy.

  [17:43.400 --> 17:45.400]  And so inspirational.

  [17:45.400 --> 17:47.400]  And I've learned a lot from him.

  [17:47.400 --> 17:48.400]  And Dan Harris.

  [17:48.400 --> 17:50.400]  And Sam Harris, unrelated.

  [17:50.400 --> 17:51.400]  And you.

  [17:51.400 --> 17:54.400]  And I find that as far as a practice goes, you know,

  [17:54.400 --> 17:57.400]  I love meta, you know, love and kindness.

  [17:57.400 --> 17:59.400]  I love that.

  [17:59.400 --> 18:00.400]  It's really funny.

  [18:00.400 --> 18:04.400]  I told Joseph Goldstein that like, when I, I chose,

  [18:04.400 --> 18:07.400]  and for people who don't know, like, maybe you can explain it better than I can.

  [18:07.400 --> 18:10.400]  But part of the meta, part of the process of this love and kindness meditation

  [18:10.400 --> 18:14.400]  is to pick a random person that you see from time to time.

  [18:14.400 --> 18:18.400]  But you don't really know and, and send him or her good thoughts, you know,

  [18:18.400 --> 18:21.400]  maybe, maybe happy, maybe healthy.

  [18:21.400 --> 18:24.400]  May you not be suffering, et cetera.

  [18:24.400 --> 18:28.400]  And so I kept picking this random guy at the grocery store that he works there.

  [18:28.400 --> 18:29.400]  And I see him all the time.

  [18:29.400 --> 18:31.400]  And, and I told Joseph about this.

  [18:31.400 --> 18:35.400]  And like, suddenly he started looking at me when I came in and smiling all the time.

  [18:35.400 --> 18:37.400]  He'd be like, hey, or he'd wave to me.

  [18:37.400 --> 18:38.400]  What the hell?

  [18:38.400 --> 18:40.400]  Like, that's weird.

  [18:40.400 --> 18:45.400]  So these are just some things that I've learned that I don't know if I answered all your questions there.

  [18:45.400 --> 18:48.400]  But what are your thoughts on all of that?

  [18:48.400 --> 18:49.400]  Well, okay.

  [18:49.400 --> 18:54.400]  So I've gone through a whole, you know, I've been, because I've been meditating a long time now.

  [18:54.400 --> 18:55.400]  And then I had to teach it.

  [18:55.400 --> 18:57.400]  And I teach it to a lot of ADHD folks.

  [18:57.400 --> 19:02.400]  And I've had to kind of get over the ideals of what we imagine practices

  [19:02.400 --> 19:06.400]  and get down to the brass tax of what it actually means for me with my particular wiring.

  [19:06.400 --> 19:13.400]  So, at the beginning, I was able to get, you know, a lot of people have trouble just the classic, you know,

  [19:13.400 --> 19:16.400]  pay attention to your breath, and wanders, bring it back.

  [19:16.400 --> 19:19.400]  I actually think that basic training is good for everybody with ADHD.

  [19:19.400 --> 19:22.400]  It doesn't, you're not trying to get to some perfect ideal concentration.

  [19:22.400 --> 19:29.400]  You're just trying to get a little bit more, have a little bit more autonomy about where you put your attention.

  [19:29.400 --> 19:31.400]  And that is important for everybody.

  [19:31.400 --> 19:36.400]  So, I early on in practice, I would get, I could get absorbed in the breath and whatever.

  [19:36.400 --> 19:41.400]  But what I started to realize is that, how do I put it?

  [19:41.400 --> 19:44.400]  ADHD is actually a superpower.

  [19:44.400 --> 19:54.400]  ADHD people, and what I mean by that is, it's a, it is, part of ADHD is naturally your wired for mindfulness.

  [19:54.400 --> 19:56.400]  In the sense that you're wired to come back.

  [19:56.400 --> 20:02.400]  That this thing of like, forgetting where you were, or getting, like, if you can pull out of your hyper focus, like,

  [20:02.400 --> 20:03.400]  all of a sudden, where am I now?

  [20:03.400 --> 20:04.400]  You're distracted.

  [20:04.400 --> 20:06.400]  You're back in the present moment.

  [20:06.400 --> 20:08.400]  The problem is, you're back in the present moment.

  [20:08.400 --> 20:11.400]  Super stressed out about all the shit that you forgot and all the things you think you got to need to do

  [20:11.400 --> 20:13.400]  and all this urgency and all these judgments.

  [20:13.400 --> 20:15.400]  And so, you're miserable in the present moment.

  [20:15.400 --> 20:16.400]  But you're in the present.

  [20:16.400 --> 20:20.400]  A lot of people are just stay in their dream fixation and their whatever.

  [20:20.400 --> 20:22.400]  But ADHD, you pop out.

  [20:22.400 --> 20:24.400]  So, I started to notice the pop out.

  [20:24.400 --> 20:29.400]  I started to notice, I started to change my framing around when I get distracted.

  [20:29.400 --> 20:32.400]  And I'm just like, and I see it as like a wake up bell.

  [20:32.400 --> 20:33.400]  Like, oh, I'm back.

  [20:33.400 --> 20:37.400]  And then I just do this little check-in like, well, what's going on right now?

  [20:37.400 --> 20:38.400]  Right.

  [20:38.400 --> 20:42.400]  Once the big learning for me is like around, I mean, there's multiple, big learnings.

  [20:42.400 --> 20:45.400]  But it's like what you said about reframing the thoughts.

  [20:45.400 --> 20:48.400]  Like, you begin to realize you don't have to be subject to your thoughts.

  [20:48.400 --> 20:53.400]  There's nothing inevitable about the thought or the certainties that you happen to have rolling out.

  [20:53.400 --> 20:58.400]  They're kind of like, they're things that you're actually, you're in like a little bit of a trance.

  [20:58.400 --> 21:00.400]  And you can pop out of them.

  [21:00.400 --> 21:03.400]  And when you pop out of them, there's much less suffering.

  [21:03.400 --> 21:07.400]  And then you can choose, well, how do I want to allocate my attention now?

  [21:07.400 --> 21:12.400]  So, this thing of like, pop out, notice I'm in thinking, how do I want to reallocate my attention?

  [21:12.400 --> 21:15.400]  And that's something that an ADHD person can learn.

  [21:15.400 --> 21:18.400]  You know, it's not maybe better than other people can learn.

  [21:19.400 --> 21:28.400]  And then you have, so you start to develop more, you know, agency around how you want to apply where you want to put your attention.

  [21:28.400 --> 21:29.400]  So that's one thing.

  [21:29.400 --> 21:33.400]  And then the other, and then the other, then there's a couple of other things.

  [21:33.400 --> 21:36.400]  And even that, I could go into way more detail with that.

  [21:36.400 --> 21:38.400]  But it's like totally nerdy shit.

  [21:38.400 --> 21:40.400]  But it's how it works.

  [21:40.400 --> 21:43.400]  But the other thing is the acceptance.

  [21:43.400 --> 21:46.400]  You just what, this happens in many different ways.

  [21:46.400 --> 21:48.400]  That's the core skill you're building in meditation.

  [21:48.400 --> 21:49.400]  It's not really focus.

  [21:49.400 --> 21:50.400]  People think it's focus.

  [21:50.400 --> 21:52.400]  It's not even inside about your thoughts.

  [21:52.400 --> 21:55.400]  What it truly is is acceptance about the present moment.

  [21:55.400 --> 21:58.400]  Acceptance about you, how you're existing in this present moment.

  [21:58.400 --> 22:05.400]  That trickles down and creates a sense of subtleness and safety and belonging no matter how deranged your system.

  [22:05.400 --> 22:07.400]  And so that, and that happens in different ways.

  [22:07.400 --> 22:09.400]  It happens through reading books about ADHD.

  [22:09.400 --> 22:11.400]  First, getting the diagnosis, reading books about ADHD.

  [22:11.400 --> 22:13.400]  Oh my god, that is like me.

  [22:13.400 --> 22:14.400]  Holy shit.

  [22:14.400 --> 22:15.400]  I forgot to describe before.

  [22:15.400 --> 22:16.400]  Oh my god.

  [22:16.400 --> 22:18.400]  It's like he's talking about me.

  [22:18.400 --> 22:20.400]  And you're like, it's like Eureka after Eureka.

  [22:20.400 --> 22:23.400]  It's like, I don't have to pretend to not be this way anymore.

  [22:23.400 --> 22:25.400]  When I meet someone, I'm like, hey, what's up?

  [22:25.400 --> 22:27.400]  I'm like, let me give me their name.

  [22:27.400 --> 22:28.400]  I'm like, great.

  [22:28.400 --> 22:30.400]  I'm going to write down your name in my phone because if I don't,

  [22:30.400 --> 22:33.400]  I'm going to forget because I basically have no short term memory.

  [22:33.400 --> 22:35.400]  My shirt, my cash is like this big.

  [22:35.400 --> 22:37.400]  I've already forgotten your name as a matter of fact.

  [22:37.400 --> 22:38.400]  I'll ask them again.

  [22:38.400 --> 22:39.400]  They'll tell me and then I'll forget it again.

  [22:39.400 --> 22:41.400]  So I have to put it in my phone.

  [22:41.400 --> 22:43.400]  It was a but now I can, I don't have to feel bad about that.

  [22:43.400 --> 22:45.400]  Like I still do the best I can.

  [22:45.400 --> 22:48.400]  But it's like, so you get these Eureka's, these insights.

  [22:48.400 --> 22:52.400]  And that, that's, you start to accept that this is who I am.

  [22:52.400 --> 22:56.400]  And then all the million, what you really get sensitive to in meditation

  [22:56.400 --> 23:02.400]  is all the, the, the, the dozens, the hundreds, the thousands of ways

  [23:02.400 --> 23:05.400]  in every moment you're fighting with yourself.

  [23:05.400 --> 23:07.400]  You're fighting with this moment.

  [23:07.400 --> 23:09.400]  You're in some neurotic struggle.

  [23:09.400 --> 23:10.400]  They don't even know you're in.

  [23:10.400 --> 23:12.400]  You're, you're seized back in self-judgment.

  [23:12.400 --> 23:15.400]  You're avoiding these situations for this reason.

  [23:15.400 --> 23:18.400]  You're, you know, whatever it is, there's so much noise in the system.

  [23:18.400 --> 23:23.400]  It's like, that's just, I mean, there's different analogy for this.

  [23:23.400 --> 23:28.400]  The way I sometimes think of what meditation brings with the augmenting of,

  [23:28.400 --> 23:32.400]  of equanimity is I get people to like, you know, the classic thing

  [23:32.400 --> 23:37.400]  of the, the Renaissance sculptor who sees the great big piece of stone.

  [23:37.400 --> 23:39.400]  And in the stone there, they see the figure.

  [23:39.400 --> 23:44.400]  They see the, the figure of the, of the, the man, the woman, whatever it is

  [23:44.400 --> 23:45.400]  that they want to carve.

  [23:45.400 --> 23:47.400]  But they first have to get the stone off.

  [23:47.400 --> 23:48.400]  Yeah.

  [23:48.400 --> 23:51.400]  Well, that's how I kind of think of what, what, what practice does is it,

  [23:51.400 --> 23:56.400]  it, it's like all the, the stone around the figure is the noise.

  [23:56.400 --> 23:59.400]  It's the suffering, it's the contractions, the solidified habits.

  [23:59.400 --> 24:04.400]  Like the figure in the stone is the clean signal of what wants to happen

  [24:04.400 --> 24:05.400]  in the moment.

  [24:05.400 --> 24:09.400]  It's the sick, clean signal of just seeing those trees, hearing that voice,

  [24:09.400 --> 24:15.400]  of just feeling this emotion, of just noticing that thought, of just having this impulse.

  [24:15.400 --> 24:18.400]  Like those are the things that are happening in the present moment.

  [24:18.400 --> 24:22.400]  And then there's all the shit around it, the noise, the fighting, the struggle,

  [24:22.400 --> 24:26.400]  the suffering, the stone, if you want to call it, that's unnecessary.

  [24:26.400 --> 24:31.400]  With practice, it's like over time you get to start to dissolve that stuff.

  [24:31.400 --> 24:36.400]  And you start to then just accept, this is me, here I am.

  [24:36.400 --> 24:37.400]  And guess what?

  [24:37.400 --> 24:38.400]  Life is way better.

  [24:38.400 --> 24:41.400]  And there's more natural, easy compassion.

  [24:41.400 --> 24:43.400]  There's more, so the meta is easier.

  [24:43.400 --> 24:46.400]  Like you're just saying, like the, the friendliness.

  [24:46.400 --> 24:50.400]  And it's like, that is what people need to, so the question is, how do you get to that?

  [24:50.400 --> 24:51.400]  One, can you get to that?

  [24:51.400 --> 24:55.400]  And I'll tell you, you do not have to sit down and struggle to focus on your breath.

  [24:55.400 --> 24:59.400]  You know, you do not have to have some special mantra or visualization.

  [24:59.400 --> 25:03.400]  You don't have to be authorized by XYZ teacher.

  [25:03.400 --> 25:08.400]  Once you understand the skill of equanimity, skill of concentration, skill of clarity,

  [25:08.400 --> 25:14.400]  and how they build, you can find it in all kinds of different everyday activities and habits.

  [25:14.400 --> 25:17.400]  And you can get more and more, ever more to that place.

  [25:17.400 --> 25:22.400]  And that's what my, so that became the life focus for me is like, how do I help people do that?

  [25:22.400 --> 25:25.400]  I work with different people from every kind of background and I'm just, okay,

  [25:25.400 --> 25:30.400]  how can I help you find this thing and articulate it in an offer of framing in a way that helps yourself?

  [25:30.400 --> 25:31.400]  Yeah, yeah.

  [25:31.400 --> 25:36.400]  To your point, let's say you're attempting to meditate, let's say,

  [25:36.400 --> 25:40.400]  and for the first time perhaps, and you're trying to focus on your breath

  [25:40.400 --> 25:43.400]  because that's what you're being told to focus on.

  [25:43.400 --> 25:47.400]  It's not beating yourself up each time you're distracted by a thought

  [25:47.400 --> 25:50.400]  but rather celebrating the return to the breath.

  [25:50.400 --> 25:54.400]  So celebrating that you were like, oh, yeah, I'm going to get back to the breath.

  [25:54.400 --> 25:55.400]  Like I got distracted.

  [25:55.400 --> 25:56.400]  That's okay.

  [25:56.400 --> 25:57.400]  And now I'm back to the breath.

  [25:57.400 --> 26:02.400]  And each time you get back to the breath, it's like, yeah, all right, I'm going to get like this is working.

  [26:02.400 --> 26:03.400]  Exactly.

  [26:03.400 --> 26:06.400]  You go back to the breath and you go back to the breath and you know you're back to the breath.

  [26:06.400 --> 26:07.400]  That's the key move.

  [26:07.400 --> 26:08.400]  There's this meta quality.

  [26:08.400 --> 26:10.400]  You're breathing and you know you're breathing.

  [26:10.400 --> 26:11.400]  You're sitting and you know you're sitting.

  [26:11.400 --> 26:13.400]  So you are found in awareness.

  [26:13.400 --> 26:16.400]  That sanity, that awareness is what grows.

  [26:16.400 --> 26:18.400]  And it's like a solvent.

  [26:18.400 --> 26:22.400]  Then instead of being inside this neurotic thought about your worries or concerns

  [26:22.400 --> 26:27.400]  and it was all consuming, you're like, oh, I've been in a neurotic thought about my concerns.

  [26:27.400 --> 26:28.400]  That was all consuming.

  [26:28.400 --> 26:30.400]  I can just watch that thought for a second here.

  [26:30.400 --> 26:32.400]  And then it's like that's solvent.

  [26:32.400 --> 26:36.400]  What it does is it dissolves all the stone around the clean signal of that.

  [26:36.400 --> 26:39.400]  The simple emotion you were having, the simple thought you were having.

  [26:39.400 --> 26:41.400]  Now it's just the thought itself.

  [26:41.400 --> 26:43.400]  It's just the visual sight itself.

  [26:43.400 --> 26:44.400]  It's just the feeling itself.

  [26:44.400 --> 26:48.400]  It's like, and so it awareness just dissolves all that stuff.

  [26:48.400 --> 26:51.400]  And eventually more and more, you're just in that.

  [26:51.400 --> 26:52.400]  So yeah, you met it.

  [26:52.400 --> 26:55.400]  You get distracted and you come back when it's like you're coming back to awareness.

  [26:55.400 --> 26:59.400]  You notice that kind of galvanic fresh feeling of being back.

  [26:59.400 --> 27:03.400]  Which every ADHD person knows they didn't know it was like medicine.

  [27:03.400 --> 27:04.400]  Yeah.

  [27:04.400 --> 27:05.400]  Yeah.

  [27:05.400 --> 27:06.400]  Yeah.

  [27:06.400 --> 27:10.400]  Something else I've learned is that I'm curious what your take is on this.

  [27:10.400 --> 27:12.400]  And I can't remember where I learned this.

  [27:12.400 --> 27:16.400]  If you get just like if not if when you get distracted.

  [27:16.400 --> 27:20.400]  Let's say you start thinking of like, oh, I've got to go pick up the kids from school today.

  [27:20.400 --> 27:24.400]  Instead of like beating yourself up in the moment that you got distracted.

  [27:24.400 --> 27:29.400]  You can play out the thought and like a little mini micro movie in your head.

  [27:29.400 --> 27:30.400]  Oh, yeah.

  [27:30.400 --> 27:31.400]  And picture yourself doing it.

  [27:31.400 --> 27:34.400]  So, okay, I got to get in the car drive to the school.

  [27:34.400 --> 27:37.400]  Get the kids say, you know, kiss them say hello.

  [27:37.400 --> 27:40.400]  Ask them how their day was put on some fishbone.

  [27:40.400 --> 27:42.400]  Jam some music like played that he said, but give me.

  [27:42.400 --> 27:43.400]  Yeah.

  [27:43.400 --> 27:44.400]  Oh, yeah.

  [27:44.400 --> 27:45.400]  Schooled my kids on.

  [27:45.400 --> 27:46.400]  Yeah, I raised them.

  [27:46.400 --> 27:47.400]  I'm good music.

  [27:47.400 --> 27:48.400]  But yeah, pick them up.

  [27:48.400 --> 27:49.400]  Drive them home.

  [27:49.400 --> 27:50.400]  Drop them off.

  [27:50.400 --> 27:51.400]  They come in.

  [27:51.400 --> 27:52.400]  Have a snack.

  [27:52.400 --> 27:53.400]  And that's it.

  [27:53.400 --> 27:56.400]  But like the way I just explained that took maybe a minute or so.

  [27:56.400 --> 28:01.400]  Where in reality, just thinking of that, it's like a second or two seconds.

  [28:01.400 --> 28:03.400]  And it's like, okay, what happens next?

  [28:03.400 --> 28:05.400]  Well, it's kind of it.

  [28:05.400 --> 28:07.400]  I don't want to do homework, watch TV, whatever.

  [28:07.400 --> 28:09.400]  Oh, and now I can get back to the breath.

  [28:09.400 --> 28:10.400]  That's a great technique.

  [28:10.400 --> 28:14.400]  It creates what it does is it honors the thought, but it creates closure.

  [28:14.400 --> 28:17.400]  So now it's like you, you kind of like fidgeting and it's done.

  [28:17.400 --> 28:20.400]  Now it's like your system doesn't have to keep, you know, egging you on about.

  [28:20.400 --> 28:23.400]  It's like, oh, it can kind of just settle and get on to the next thing.

  [28:23.400 --> 28:24.400]  So it's very smart.

  [28:24.400 --> 28:25.400]  That's a smart move.

  [28:25.400 --> 28:29.400]  I'll get, I'll take credit and I'll just say I created a muscle.

  [28:29.400 --> 28:34.400]  I do have a question about this actually because besides the, the,

  [28:34.400 --> 28:39.400]  an important point, a very important point about talking to ourselves

  [28:39.400 --> 28:44.400]  like we would a good friend or a child instead of talking ourselves like we're jerks.

  [28:44.400 --> 28:47.400]  Um, which of course doesn't, doesn't help anything.

  [28:47.400 --> 28:50.400]  I was, I, I talked to myself a lot when I'm out.

  [28:50.400 --> 28:53.400]  I do like a three mile walk every morning and I record it.

  [28:53.400 --> 28:57.400]  I do, I have the voice memo app and I record myself and I've got the AirPods.

  [28:57.400 --> 29:00.400]  I don't look like a mad person just walking down the street.

  [29:00.400 --> 29:05.400]  Um, and, but I talked to myself thinking through ideas and things like that.

  [29:05.400 --> 29:08.400]  And I find speaking out loud is helpful.

  [29:08.400 --> 29:11.400]  But I came up with, I was thinking about something the other day.

  [29:11.400 --> 29:15.400]  And I wrote a blog post about this actually about, and I made it a visual.

  [29:15.400 --> 29:20.400]  Okay. If you, if you think thoughts when you like, you have internal monologue.

  [29:20.400 --> 29:24.400]  And then when you externalize that monologue.

  [29:24.400 --> 29:28.400]  I find I can get it, give myself a little grace and go back and say no.

  [29:28.400 --> 29:31.400]  For example, if I'm walking and I'm thinking like, damn it.

  [29:31.400 --> 29:33.400]  I miss calling back that client.

  [29:33.400 --> 29:34.400]  Now they're mad at me.

  [29:34.400 --> 29:35.400]  Damn it.

  [29:35.400 --> 29:37.400]  Um, I'm such an idiot.

  [29:37.400 --> 29:40.400]  But by saying it out loud in my hold on, I'm not an idiot.

  [29:40.400 --> 29:43.400]  Something happened and I wasn't able to like that.

  [29:43.400 --> 29:47.400]  That's that internal monologue being externalized when I say it out loud.

  [29:47.400 --> 29:52.400]  And catching myself in that process of, of stopping myself from, you know, correcting myself.

  [29:52.400 --> 29:57.400]  I call that subconscious stewing, which is like, okay.

  [29:57.400 --> 29:58.400]  I said it out loud.

  [29:58.400 --> 29:59.400]  So I'm aware of the thought.

  [29:59.400 --> 30:01.400]  The thought was externalized.

  [30:01.400 --> 30:03.400]  So I'm, you know, it works both ways.

  [30:03.400 --> 30:08.400]  But somewhere in the back of my mind subconsciously, I'm calling myself a jerk or an idiot.

  [30:08.400 --> 30:17.400]  And I don't know whether the more we say it out loud and correct ourselves and give ourselves grace and love and self acceptance.

  [30:17.400 --> 30:24.400]  The better the internal monologue will be and thus the subconscious stewing will change to something, you know, positive.

  [30:24.400 --> 30:25.400]  Any thoughts on that?

  [30:25.400 --> 30:26.400]  Yeah.

  [30:26.400 --> 30:32.400]  Well, I think, well, I mean, the broad thought is that you're bringing more awareness to that process.

  [30:32.400 --> 30:40.400]  And there's many ways to bring awareness to the process, whether it's journaling, whether it's making a voice note, whether it's just sitting in meditation and watching it.

  [30:40.400 --> 30:46.400]  And the more you do that, because that's what's happening, you're bringing awareness to your, you're in your thought lost in it.

  [30:46.400 --> 30:49.400]  Then you noticed you brought your awareness to it, then you externalized it.

  [30:49.400 --> 30:51.400]  The externalization may be valuable for you.

  [30:51.400 --> 31:00.400]  People, a lot of writers do versions of that or the opposite, you know, they, they write out a draft of a chapter and then read it out loud.

  [31:00.400 --> 31:06.400]  And then the reading out loud, it's, they get, they can get a better sense of what, you know, it's like some way to get perspective.

  [31:06.400 --> 31:09.400]  But really what's happening is awareness is landing on that.

  [31:09.400 --> 31:17.400]  And what happens is the more you bring awareness back to your own thinking process in a calm, settled, kind of curious way,

  [31:17.400 --> 31:19.400]  the more you realize how much is there.

  [31:19.400 --> 31:28.400]  And it's sort of like, I had it, my teacher shins in was a bit like, it's sort of like the, the thoughts we notice are like the flowers that are blooming, you know, or like even the shoots.

  [31:28.400 --> 31:45.400]  But there's the roots that go under the, into the subconscious, the, the sense of like the push, pull, tug, the lie like this thought, I don't like this thought, the tortured, this is about me, the emotional valence, the, the associations that are flickering by like a visible rolodex, you just get a sense of them.

  [31:45.400 --> 31:50.400]  It's amazing what you can start to notice is you get quiet, you start to see more and more of that.

  [31:50.400 --> 32:01.400]  When I hear about people talk about the expansion of consciousness, you know, for me, really this is what it means, it means like you're basically beginning to bring more of awareness into what was previously subconscious.

  [32:01.400 --> 32:10.400]  And as you do that, like I said, it acts as a solvent, it starts to kind of cool out and integrate those spaces, it sees it, it allows them to complete their circuits.

  [32:10.400 --> 32:23.400]  So I mean, just by way of example, my internal world is much quieter than it used to be. I used to have so many competing voices and parts and agonies and self judgements and it's just like quieter.

  [32:23.400 --> 32:30.400]  I have plenty of creative thoughts there, but that's mostly what's there now and there's self referential stuff, but just not as much.

  [32:30.400 --> 32:41.400]  So just that process, it's like it starts to, it's like you're turning up the resolution dial and cleaning out the getting a better signal to noise ratio continually, continually, continually.

  [32:41.400 --> 32:51.400]  I think there are times and I didn't forget to call the client I promise that was about there's a random example, because I'm pretty anal about making sure I'm keeping up with clients, especially.

  [32:51.400 --> 33:13.400]  But to that point, let's say you screw up, like you just you you screwed up, like you really, you really blew it and you can't just rise again, I just said it, but like you can't just accept it like you could perhaps accept that I, you know, I had a bad day and did it did it, but it's like, no, I caused car accident or I did something serious.

  [33:13.400 --> 33:20.400]  Yeah, this is the classic misunderstanding around acceptance and equanimity.

  [33:20.400 --> 33:42.400]  You accept you screwed up, you accept this happened, there is this disappointed person, there is, I did this thing, instead of agonizing and fighting over it and being tortured and this that together, it's like, you get quiet and you notice the clean clear signal of that understanding along and a clean clear view of this situation.

  [33:42.400 --> 34:06.400]  So now you can make your repair, now you're best able to respond in an intelligent and effective way, instead of responding react by, instead of reacting, which is maybe one person ignores it and I don't want to look at it or I just, I don't admit that that ever happened and it creates this weird thing with them or I block out of my mind or I overcompensate and now I'm like falling all over them to try to make it up to them, which is also not balanced.

  [34:06.400 --> 34:18.400]  It's more like, hey, I made this mistake, I did this, you own up to your clear, you move on, that's what again, it's like, what you're after with practice is a clean clear signal of what wants to happen.

  [34:18.400 --> 34:47.400]  You, the people think acceptance means you're condoning some situation or it's, or you're, or you're suddenly somehow becoming passive, it's more like, it's more like realism, this happened, now what are, what wants to happen from there, where are the most creative responses going to come from, where they're going to come from that place of a grounded availability to the present, which includes the presence of your own best values and interests and the things you've learned as a human being and all that.

  [34:48.400 --> 34:57.400]  Yeah, yeah. Good point. I read somewhere that you talked about writing down your personal medicines and how we can determine which are best.

  [34:57.400 --> 35:02.400]  How do we, besides actual medicine, that's a different story like stimulants and so forth.

  [35:02.400 --> 35:13.400]  Well, yeah, so I think, you know, I think we all have these mind bodies that we had to do our best to kind of manage and we never get taught in school that that's important.

  [35:13.400 --> 35:21.400]  We learn geography, history, all the rest. I'm hoping that'll change and I want to be part of that change because it's so valuable.

  [35:21.400 --> 35:27.400]  And we, because we're intelligent beings, we sort of start to figure out some of it on our own.

  [35:27.400 --> 35:39.400]  We naturally begin to get a sense of what regulates us. We just organ, and we organize ourselves around that. So some people know that just going for a, you say you're going for a three mile walk in the morning, you figured out that that works for you.

  [35:39.400 --> 35:47.400]  The energy out is a way to kind of think. And so you have a practice that you could then be more deliberate about doing someone else that might be going for a walk in nature.

  [35:47.400 --> 36:00.400]  They noticed that, you know, when I walk my dog or I hang out my pop at home or whatever it is, there's some regulating effects. Someone else, it's a bath. Someone else, it's this particular friend, not everyone, certain friends, that kind of feel like you can be real with.

  [36:00.400 --> 36:08.400]  You can connect for someone else, it's a meditation practice for someone else that's going to the gym or running or yoga or whatever martial arts. I mean, there's always.

  [36:08.400 --> 36:21.400]  So I think it's, I think it's really worth doing an inventory of just thinking through, okay, notice what you do during your day when things get challenging and you need to just blow off steam or you need to get settled or find a bit of peace.

  [36:21.400 --> 36:29.400]  What do you do? And you could write all the strategies from the ones that you think of as being healthy, like I don't know what we're going for a run or a walk.

  [36:29.400 --> 36:39.400]  So the ones that you might judge yourself as being unhealthy, you know, I've binge on Netflix, so whatever, but that's still a compensation. It's still a coping a tool you're trying to use to self regulate.

  [36:39.400 --> 36:48.400]  Once you have that list, you can kind of zone in and be like, okay, now which ones of this by and large have a pot have a net positive effect on my life.

  [36:48.400 --> 36:54.400]  The Netflix maybe for an hour or half an hour, I don't know, it's like good to kind of just get your head off stuff.

  [36:54.400 --> 37:15.400]  But at a certain point, it's diminishing returns, right? Like there's a way in which the, the, the constant connecting to a 2D screen, as opposed to the real juicy embodiment of being a human the way it, it's like it can become a kind of a drug, you know.

  [37:15.400 --> 37:25.400]  I like watching movies, but I, I notice also what are you watching? If I watch action movies, which I do love, I actually noticed that I can't watch really violent movies so much anymore.

  [37:25.400 --> 37:33.400]  Like it actually affects me, but when I was more unconscious, I just didn't know, but I'd be going around in this sort of aggro way or this, you know.

  [37:33.400 --> 37:43.400]  So you start to get smarter about what you're doing, but you make this inventory, you choose the ones that are that seem like are that have the best effect for you, and then you boost the signal on them.

  [37:43.400 --> 37:52.400]  You make them more intentional, you make them a deliberate practice, you protect, you don't, instead of being like, oh, it's just this thing I do, and you're not even really respecting it.

  [37:52.400 --> 38:02.400]  It's like if anything, it's like the bottom of your list, you put it to the top of your list, you go, it's this thing I do, and it's important for these reasons, you, you protect it, you value it.

  [38:02.400 --> 38:11.400]  And then like I teach in meditation, you can kind of turn up the dials on a few of the core skills, the equanimity, the clarity, the concentration and the care.

  [38:11.400 --> 38:18.400]  They're the four I pay attention to, but you could make it, you could make notice where your attention goes when you do that practice.

  [38:18.400 --> 38:28.400]  If you're going for a walk in nature, instead of just doing about your problems, be a little more deliberate about embedding your attention to bird songs and the light in the trees, you know.

  [38:28.400 --> 38:38.400]  And that's going to increase the clarity and it's going to increase the, you know, you're a little bit more clear and you're a little bit more capacity to choose where you want to put your attention.

  [38:38.400 --> 38:49.400]  And you can also boost the, the caring signal, meaning like you're doing it deliberately as a way to care for yourself or as a way to care for whoever you're worth or even care for a natural environment.

  [38:49.400 --> 39:02.400]  And then finally, the equanimity signal, which is my favorite, it's the, I love talking with it's like, it's the part of you that knows how to get humble and shut up,

  [39:02.400 --> 39:08.400]  which I'm not doing because I'm so overly excited to hence my why I love it.

  [39:08.400 --> 39:12.400]  Because I just fucking go on like, blabby, blab, but no, I love it.

  [39:12.400 --> 39:19.400]  But you go, you get cool, you get chill and available to life and you let it show you something.

  [39:19.400 --> 39:25.400]  You don't think it's not what you think, you know, it's not you confirming some idea about things.

  [39:25.400 --> 39:40.400]  It's being so present that the mystery of what life wants to show you begins to kind of move in, you know, and that's where you, you're, you're into your best intuitions, the kind of quiet voice inside.

  [39:40.400 --> 39:46.400]  That's where what you want to call it, the spiritual impulse, the sense of the sacred connection to the something larger.

  [39:46.400 --> 39:48.400]  That's where that comes more online.

  [39:48.400 --> 39:51.400]  And that's when it starts to become a spiritual practice.

  [39:51.400 --> 39:55.400]  But I say spiritual, I don't want to reify spiritual people.

  [39:55.400 --> 40:03.400]  Every human being has, is a spiritual being who can connect in their, in their way, with their temperament to something bigger.

  [40:03.400 --> 40:13.400]  So if spiritual doesn't work for you as a word, call it existential call it just being a human, interested in something beyond your own fucking head, you know.

  [40:13.400 --> 40:14.400]  Yeah, yeah.

  [40:14.400 --> 40:21.400]  Did you, and I'm watching the clock, too, just to be mindful of the time here because I know, yeah.

  [40:21.400 --> 40:26.400]  I read that you had a, like, cabin a couple hours north of Toronto.

  [40:26.400 --> 40:31.400]  Is that somewhere that you went as a kid to kind of, and maybe landed on some of these revelations?

  [40:31.400 --> 40:33.400]  And also, where was the cabin? I have to ask.

  [40:33.400 --> 40:35.400]  That was a skeleton lake.

  [40:35.400 --> 40:36.400]  We heard a skeleton lake.

  [40:36.400 --> 40:37.400]  Yeah, I've heard of it.

  [40:37.400 --> 40:41.400]  It's like north part of Moscoka, sort of near Bracebridge.

  [40:41.400 --> 40:47.400]  It's like not really in the main Moscoka zone, but it's a beautiful lake that was formed by a meteor.

  [40:47.400 --> 40:55.400]  And my, my great grandfather in the 30s, there was an old, had a fishing, little fishing cabin there.

  [40:55.400 --> 40:58.400]  And, and since then, it, it's been in my family.

  [40:58.400 --> 41:00.400]  It's very, my dad built little dishes on.

  [41:00.400 --> 41:04.400]  It's not like, there's no, like, you know, it's not winterized or anything like that.

  [41:04.400 --> 41:05.400]  It's pretty rustic.

  [41:05.400 --> 41:09.400]  But yeah, no, I was, he was, there's pictures of my dad there in the 40s.

  [41:09.400 --> 41:10.400]  When he was in the late 40s.

  [41:10.400 --> 41:11.400]  When he was in the late 40s.

  [41:11.400 --> 41:12.400]  So I've been there.

  [41:12.400 --> 41:17.400]  I would go there every summer, and that was definitely no question.

  [41:17.400 --> 41:21.400]  The being just going off into the woods on my own and just sitting on it.

  [41:21.400 --> 41:26.400]  I remember sitting in the moss and looking at the trees and like, having that settle me.

  [41:26.400 --> 41:28.400]  And the other big one was swimming underwater.

  [41:28.400 --> 41:30.400]  Because the water is really clear there.

  [41:30.400 --> 41:32.400]  And I just, I love the water.

  [41:32.400 --> 41:35.400]  I just go underwater and that's my happy place.

  [41:35.400 --> 41:36.400]  Yeah, I had a cottage.

  [41:36.400 --> 41:38.400]  I had a cottage on Lake Del Ripple.

  [41:38.400 --> 41:40.400]  I have so many great memories there.

  [41:40.400 --> 41:44.400]  And my dad, for whatever reason, he was so smart, he'd never put a phone in.

  [41:44.400 --> 41:46.400]  So we didn't have a telephone up there.

  [41:46.400 --> 41:47.400]  No, it was just great.

  [41:47.400 --> 41:48.400]  And we had no cable or anything.

  [41:48.400 --> 41:50.400]  We had a TV app, but we had two channels.

  [41:51.400 --> 41:56.400]  And then when I got older, my buddies started coming up with me without my dad.

  [41:56.400 --> 42:00.400]  I had a rule that everybody had no cell phones, no watches.

  [42:00.400 --> 42:02.400]  You had to drop your watches.

  [42:02.400 --> 42:05.400]  And we took all the clocks down, so we had no idea what time it was.

  [42:05.400 --> 42:08.400]  And then got into shenanigans.

  [42:08.400 --> 42:09.400]  I love that.

  [42:09.400 --> 42:13.400]  Well, yeah, but funny, you're saying that because we didn't have any of that either.

  [42:13.400 --> 42:17.400]  I mean, we had an emergency phone just for emergencies.

  [42:18.400 --> 42:22.400]  But that was also where my dad had a shop there.

  [42:22.400 --> 42:23.400]  Still does.

  [42:23.400 --> 42:25.400]  My dad's like in his 80s now.

  [42:25.400 --> 42:29.400]  And he's like into, he likes the kind of a builder guy engineer.

  [42:29.400 --> 42:32.400]  And so I used to go down to the shop a lot too.

  [42:32.400 --> 42:36.400]  And that was very regulating and watching him work with the wood.

  [42:36.400 --> 42:40.400]  Just to smell a gasoline and the tools and saw dust.

  [42:40.400 --> 42:44.400]  And I really, I could see that that was how my dad was regulating himself.

  [42:44.400 --> 42:47.400]  I mean, my dad's a very solid, steady signal guy.

  [42:47.400 --> 42:52.400]  But, you know, that place was really, and then my mom had her garden.

  [42:52.400 --> 43:01.400]  You know, she was, that was where she was felt like she was connected to the ground and felt like, you know, it was like everyone had there.

  [43:01.400 --> 43:04.400]  It was a place of kind of a place of healing that.

  [43:04.400 --> 43:05.400]  Yeah.

  [43:05.400 --> 43:06.400]  Yeah.

  [43:06.400 --> 43:07.400]  Yeah.

  [43:07.400 --> 43:08.400]  Yeah, we need that.

  [43:08.400 --> 43:09.400]  We need that more nowadays.

  [43:09.400 --> 43:13.400]  I said, just call you unplugged and offline and go into these.

  [43:13.400 --> 43:17.400]  You could find it in cities, but you've got to be intentional about it.

  [43:17.400 --> 43:24.400]  And when you were a kid, do you think your air quotes maybe struggle with undiagnosed ADHD at the time?

  [43:24.400 --> 43:28.400]  Do you think you're trying to levitate your lunch?

  [43:28.400 --> 43:31.400]  Came from a need to focus?

  [43:31.400 --> 43:38.400]  Oh, you're talking about my, yeah, because I used to like lie in bed and basically try to practice telekinesis.

  [43:38.400 --> 43:40.400]  And shit like that, lose it dreaming.

  [43:40.400 --> 43:43.400]  Or was it watching, or were we're about the same age?

  [43:43.400 --> 43:46.400]  Or was it watching Courtney Cox as zap?

  [43:46.400 --> 43:50.400]  She, she had telekinesis and I had the biggest crush on her science.

  [43:50.400 --> 43:52.400]  Hey, it's a, misfits of science. That's what it was called.

  [43:52.400 --> 43:53.400]  Oh, yeah, totally.

  [43:53.400 --> 43:54.400]  I love that.

  [43:54.400 --> 43:55.400]  I was thinking about that movie.

  [43:55.400 --> 43:57.400]  Well, I was thinking of the movie Weird Science.

  [43:57.400 --> 44:04.400]  You know, I know I just get there and just like try to like levitate a ham sandwich up from the, to understand.

  [44:04.400 --> 44:07.400]  I think it was just like trying to understand my own mind.

  [44:07.400 --> 44:09.400]  But I could do what I couldn't do.

  [44:09.400 --> 44:10.400]  What was infinity?

  [44:10.400 --> 44:13.400]  What was always like what was like I just was very interested in all that stuff.

  [44:13.400 --> 44:19.400]  And I would try to like explore in real time the edge of my awareness and my edge of my abilities.

  [44:19.400 --> 44:21.400]  And now, of course, I'm a meditation teacher.

  [44:21.400 --> 44:25.400]  So it makes sense that I would have had that innate interest in.

  [44:25.400 --> 44:31.400]  But because no, you don't know, you know, there's like the, the muggle world of just like things going on as usual.

  [44:31.400 --> 44:34.400]  But then there's the fact that you're there at all, which is so weird.

  [44:34.400 --> 44:36.400]  And what the hell are we here for? And what can we do?

  [44:36.400 --> 44:37.400]  And what is this?

  [44:37.400 --> 44:38.400]  How does all this work?

  [44:38.400 --> 44:44.400]  Those were definitely, you know, questions and lots of young people asked when I was part of them.

  [44:44.400 --> 44:45.400]  Yeah.

  [44:45.400 --> 44:47.400]  And it's fun to kind of connect those dots to you.

  [44:47.400 --> 44:48.400]  I mean, that's something I've done.

  [44:48.400 --> 44:50.400]  And I do with my clients to you and coaching.

  [44:50.400 --> 44:55.400]  But even in presentations and things, because for me, it's taking me a long time.

  [44:55.400 --> 44:58.400]  It took me years to really realize communication is sort of my strong suit.

  [44:58.400 --> 45:00.400]  And it online or offline.

  [45:00.400 --> 45:04.400]  So like, you know, as I said, like I've been podcasting over 20 years.

  [45:04.400 --> 45:11.400]  But even in the social media back before they went evil back when it was actually, you know, fun.

  [45:11.400 --> 45:15.400]  But also just like helping, like I studied improv at second city.

  [45:15.400 --> 45:20.400]  And I worked, I worked in performing arts at Mervish productions.

  [45:20.400 --> 45:22.400]  And I worked for the Toronto star.

  [45:22.400 --> 45:28.400]  And I worked for global television, all different methods of communication before moving south to Nashville.

  [45:28.400 --> 45:35.400]  And applying all these different things and looking at yourself in this way, I think, is really helpful.

  [45:35.400 --> 45:38.400]  I have to determine sort of where your core strengths are.

  [45:38.400 --> 45:42.400]  And so you're obviously your ability to focus.

  [45:42.400 --> 45:46.400]  Maybe you didn't move the ham sandwich, but you can keep trying.

  [45:46.400 --> 45:47.400]  Who knows?

  [45:47.400 --> 45:48.400]  Maybe you can try it again.

  [45:48.400 --> 45:49.400]  You never know, right?

  [45:49.400 --> 45:53.400]  I'm skeptical that, you know, we're shot, we're the shot.

  [45:53.400 --> 45:54.400]  Well, I will see.

  [45:54.400 --> 45:55.400]  Well, I'll see.

  [45:55.400 --> 45:58.400]  So yeah, this is, this has been awesome.

  [45:58.400 --> 45:59.400]  Is there anything I didn't ask you about?

  [45:59.400 --> 46:03.400]  I know we have a few more minutes here, but I would love to like, yeah, anything.

  [46:03.400 --> 46:04.400]  Sure.

  [46:04.400 --> 46:06.400]  Well, I had a couple of ideas here.

  [46:06.400 --> 46:07.400]  I mean, I'll do that.

  [46:07.400 --> 46:12.400]  And then I could guide you and your listeners in like a two, three minute meditation dead simple is like,

  [46:12.400 --> 46:14.400]  yeah, let's do an ADD friendly one.

  [46:14.400 --> 46:15.400]  Yeah.

  [46:15.400 --> 46:16.400]  Right.

  [46:16.400 --> 46:23.400]  Because, well, I guess, because it links to what I mean, my, my interest is I, my shorthand way of talking about it is the democratization of mental health.

  [46:23.400 --> 46:32.400]  And what I mean by that is by genuinely making regulating practices and practice communities accessible to everyone.

  [46:32.400 --> 46:39.400]  I'm having a kind of like a framework for why intentional practice, whatever it is is so helpful.

  [46:39.400 --> 46:48.400]  And then creating tools so people can start their own groups and find their own practices and guide each other and kind of spread it out from there.

  [46:48.400 --> 46:51.400]  And I'm really interested in the nuts and bolts of that.

  [46:51.400 --> 46:59.400]  And so I have a sub stack called home base that is a kind of continual signal of practice support for now thousands and thousands of people.

  [46:59.400 --> 47:03.400]  Of course, I have my stuff on calm and happier and the different apps.

  [47:03.400 --> 47:10.400]  But I also have my conscious explorers club and I have something I created called the community practice activation kit.

  [47:10.400 --> 47:20.400]  The conscious worse club is a not for profit and and the kid is all about trying to help people make their own groups for whatever that could look like in their own way and kind of sharing best practices.

  [47:20.400 --> 47:21.400]  So this is all stuff.

  [47:21.400 --> 47:30.400]  I'm really, I think a lot about and I'm about to start finally putting myself out there more as someone who does talks on this and works with companies and that kind of thing.

  [47:30.400 --> 47:36.400]  Like I've done bits of that, but I've been reluctant, but now that I feel like I'm much clearer on my mission.

  [47:36.400 --> 47:44.400]  And the neurodivergent piece is really big because it's like this is part of how, you know, so they're often who they get left out.

  [47:44.400 --> 47:53.400]  Like there can be this kind of mainstream understanding of something, but like the specifics of how you struggle as an ADHD person is unique to ADHD.

  [47:53.400 --> 48:00.400]  And even though the course skills of practice are relevant to everybody, you got to figure out how to make that work for you.

  [48:00.400 --> 48:12.400]  So that, yeah, that's why I write a lot of on my sub stack about ADHD actually and I have a lot of practices specifically for like many, like many meditations for folks of the ADHD that the idea is that you never know what's going to work for you.

  [48:12.400 --> 48:16.400]  Because even with an ADHD, there's so much diversity, right?

  [48:16.400 --> 48:22.400]  Someone might just want some nuts and bolts focused on the breath and that turns out to be medicine or a mantra or something like really good for them.

  [48:22.400 --> 48:28.400]  But then someone else, they want something more on the mindfulness tip, like we talked about or non-dual or there's so many.

  [48:28.400 --> 48:36.400]  So that's what I'm doing and I probably will probably get a book on all that, you know, I've got so much writing that I haven't collected.

  [48:37.400 --> 48:41.400]  But why don't I just do I could just guide a real simple practice.

  [48:41.400 --> 48:42.400]  Yeah, I'd love that.

  [48:42.400 --> 48:43.400]  And just for fun.

  [48:43.400 --> 48:49.400]  And see if anyone listening is like, yeah, okay, I like some of these ideas, but you're talking kind of fast, dude.

  [48:49.400 --> 48:51.400]  I'll be following all of it.

  [48:51.400 --> 48:53.400]  You know, also I've tried it before.

  [48:53.400 --> 48:54.400]  It's not for me.

  [48:54.400 --> 48:55.400]  Like this is for you.

  [48:55.400 --> 48:56.400]  Okay.

  [48:56.400 --> 49:00.400]  So the first thing is about before we even start, so we're not meditating yet.

  [49:00.400 --> 49:03.400]  Don't worry, open your eyes, open your eyes, Dave.

  [49:04.400 --> 49:09.400]  A couple of important things to say that are important to say upfront.

  [49:09.400 --> 49:13.400]  I think the most important don't make it a thing.

  [49:13.400 --> 49:16.400]  You're going to try to think, oh, this is a special activity called meditation.

  [49:16.400 --> 49:18.400]  I got to do something with it.

  [49:18.400 --> 49:20.400]  Like just let's back up from that for a second.

  [49:20.400 --> 49:29.400]  In your life, there have been times no matter how 80's do you are where you've just maybe you got home early from work or whatever it was.

  [49:30.400 --> 49:33.400]  You had a little bit of time, you know, you had 10 minutes.

  [49:33.400 --> 49:40.400]  There was nowhere you needed to be nor else you wanted to be just sort of you could sit on your front stoop or maybe you were it was lunch on a park bench.

  [49:40.400 --> 49:49.400]  And he just sort of were available to life, you know, you just kind of idly listen to the sound of traffic or cicadas or whatever it was.

  [49:49.400 --> 49:51.400]  And that was it.

  [49:51.400 --> 49:54.400]  So that is the ground of what we're talking about.

  [49:54.400 --> 49:56.400]  We're just so let's naturalize it.

  [49:56.400 --> 49:58.400]  So now I'll start.

  [49:58.400 --> 50:05.400]  It's like, so with that in mind, you know, you can have your eyes closed or not, but just like let your shoulders come down like like this.

  [50:05.400 --> 50:07.400]  Like I'm not going to do shit.

  [50:07.400 --> 50:09.400]  Like, yeah, I'm not going.

  [50:09.400 --> 50:12.400]  I'm just going to sit here and I don't need to you don't worry about a fact thoughts.

  [50:12.400 --> 50:17.400]  But that's like, imagine this is like just that time I described.

  [50:17.400 --> 50:24.400]  It's one of those times where here's a place you're just going to come to rest for a few beats, like a few minutes.

  [50:24.400 --> 50:27.400]  And it's like you're taking the load off.

  [50:27.400 --> 50:32.400]  You're just, you know, you've been carrying this bag around all days, full of rocks every day.

  [50:32.400 --> 50:35.400]  So you've been running a marathon.

  [50:35.400 --> 50:38.400]  Just sit down.

  [50:38.400 --> 50:50.400]  And right away try to connect this little bit of like, oh man, this little bit of like appreciation for this opportunity to just take a break here.

  [50:50.400 --> 50:54.400]  And breathe.

  [50:54.400 --> 51:02.400]  Now I like kind of in that sanity, I kind of drop my attention just into the feeling of being a body.

  [51:02.400 --> 51:06.400]  You know, like I imagine I'm just suddenly dropping in like I'm a stone.

  [51:06.400 --> 51:09.400]  I'm dropping a stone into a pond or maybe I am.

  [51:09.400 --> 51:10.400]  I'm like a stone statue.

  [51:10.400 --> 51:11.400]  It's like a boom.

  [51:11.400 --> 51:12.400]  Okay.

  [51:12.400 --> 51:18.400]  Come to rest here.

  [51:18.400 --> 51:20.400]  And then it's like a downward drop.

  [51:20.400 --> 51:23.400]  And then there's this slight expansion.

  [51:23.400 --> 51:26.400]  You can ask, well, what's going on with me right now?

  [51:26.400 --> 51:27.400]  What's happening now?

  [51:27.400 --> 51:29.400]  I may not have noticed in myself.

  [51:29.400 --> 51:36.400]  So you're just like popping out of what you were in and you're coming into this slightly broader sense of your own awareness.

  [51:36.400 --> 51:44.400]  So it might be, well, I'm listening to this guy talk so that you're noticing that.

  [51:44.400 --> 51:52.400]  It might be, oh yeah, I noticed that I'm feeling a little racy in my chest or a little unsettled or there's some urgency.

  [51:52.400 --> 51:53.400]  Cool. Don't need to change it.

  [51:53.400 --> 51:57.400]  I'm just noticing that you're like doing like a little inventory.

  [51:57.400 --> 52:00.400]  Oh, I'm noticing that I've barely been breathing today.

  [52:00.400 --> 52:09.400]  And so all of a sudden this big breath happens all on its own goes into your chest, down into your belly.

  [52:09.400 --> 52:12.400]  I noticed some tired maybe.

  [52:12.400 --> 52:15.400]  Oh, I noticed a buzzy.

  [52:15.400 --> 52:19.400]  Got lots of thoughts.

  [52:19.400 --> 52:20.400]  No problem.

  [52:20.400 --> 52:21.400]  None of that needs to change.

  [52:21.400 --> 52:29.400]  What you've done is you drop down and into the present and you became available to what's here.

  [52:29.400 --> 52:33.400]  Honestly, for somebody by say, just stay here for as long as it feels good.

  [52:33.400 --> 52:39.400]  The trick is, can I pretend there's something satisfying about not doing anything?

  [52:39.400 --> 52:42.400]  My mind will be like, that is bullshit.

  [52:42.400 --> 52:43.400]  This is interesting.

  [52:43.400 --> 52:45.400]  I got more important things to do.

  [52:45.400 --> 52:47.400]  Your mind's like, I'm so important.

  [52:47.400 --> 52:48.400]  Listen to me.

  [52:48.400 --> 52:49.400]  Look, I'm the best.

  [52:49.400 --> 52:51.400]  You can be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, buddy.

  [52:51.400 --> 52:55.400]  What if this was important too?

  [52:55.400 --> 53:00.400]  Can I pretend that this is good for me?

  [53:00.400 --> 53:09.400]  Can I pretend to find something satisfying about being delinquent, about ignoring the voice of urgency?

  [53:09.400 --> 53:12.400]  Yeah.

  [53:12.400 --> 53:14.400]  And you just hang out.

  [53:14.400 --> 53:22.400]  And then if you want, you can just choose the breath or listen to a sound or you can repeat in your phrase,

  [53:22.400 --> 53:23.400]  yeah, yeah.

  [53:23.400 --> 53:25.400]  Repeat in your head, hell, yeah.

  [53:25.400 --> 53:26.400]  There it is.

  [53:26.400 --> 53:31.400]  You can have a home base that just gives you something to do that can help settle the mind.

  [53:31.400 --> 53:32.400]  But you know what?

  [53:32.400 --> 53:33.400]  We've already done it.

  [53:33.400 --> 53:35.400]  We've already made this little shift.

  [53:35.400 --> 53:37.400]  That is the essence of what this practice is.

  [53:37.400 --> 53:38.400]  And you know what?

  [53:38.400 --> 53:42.400]  Practice just builds up from there in very common sense ways.

  [53:42.400 --> 53:49.400]  And every part of you is allowed to be there no matter how torturous that was or how enjoyable it wasn't.

  [53:49.400 --> 53:51.400]  That's our meditation, Dave.

  [53:51.400 --> 53:52.400]  That was awesome.

  [53:52.400 --> 53:53.400]  And thanks.

  [53:53.400 --> 53:54.400]  Yeah.

  [53:54.400 --> 53:55.400]  That was great.

  [53:55.400 --> 53:56.400]  Home base with Jeff.com.

  [53:56.400 --> 53:57.400]  Is that your main website?

  [53:57.400 --> 53:58.400]  Uh-huh.

  [53:58.400 --> 53:59.400]  Now we're Jeff Warren.org.

  [53:59.400 --> 54:00.400]  I just want to new site.

  [54:00.400 --> 54:01.400]  Okay.

  [54:01.400 --> 54:06.400]  So literally I'm like launching it next week above and even seeing it.

  [54:06.400 --> 54:09.400]  It's like it's you have to look at it and tell me what you think.

  [54:09.400 --> 54:10.400]  I'm pretty pumped about it.

  [54:10.400 --> 54:11.400]  It's not like a year trying to get it built.

  [54:11.400 --> 54:12.400]  I will.

  [54:12.400 --> 54:13.400]  I'm pretty nerdy.

  [54:13.400 --> 54:16.400]  So yeah, happy to take a look for sure.

  [54:16.400 --> 54:17.400]  Jeff, this has been so good.

  [54:17.400 --> 54:18.400]  Appreciate it.

  [54:18.400 --> 54:19.400]  We'll see you soon.

  [54:19.400 --> 54:20.400]  Cheers.

  [54:20.400 --> 54:24.400]  If you enjoyed the show today, please leave a rating and review.

  [54:24.400 --> 54:29.400]  This helps other Y-scorals discover the show and reminds me to keep doing this.

  [54:29.400 --> 54:30.400]  Do you have questions or comments?

  [54:30.400 --> 54:33.400]  Want to share an audio comment or question?

  [54:33.400 --> 54:35.400]  Do you have questions about joining the nest?

  [54:35.400 --> 54:39.400]  Or are you interested in a free coaching session with me?

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  [54:46.400 --> 54:48.400]  Thank you for being here.

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  [55:12.400 --> 55:13.400]  Thanks for being here.

  [55:18.400 --> 55:19.400]  Thank you.